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Vermette c. General Motors du Canada ltée |
2013 QCCS 1424 |
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JM 2141 (Recours Collectif) |
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CANADA |
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PROVINCE DE QUÉBEC |
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DISTRICT DE |
MONTRÉAL |
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N° : |
500-06-000261-046 |
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DATE : |
30 janvier 2013 |
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______________________________________________________________________ |
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SOUS LA PRÉSIDENCE DE : |
L’HONORABLE |
JOHANNE MAINVILLE, J.C.S. |
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STÉPHANE VERMETTE |
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Demandeur/Représentant |
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ASSOCIATION POUR LA PROTECTION AUTOMOBILE |
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Demanderesse/Représentante |
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c. |
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GENERAL MOTORS DU CANADA LIMITÉE Défenderesse |
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JUGEMENT |
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[1] La juge soussignée doit décider des objections formulées par la défenderesse General Motors du Canada limitée, dans le cadre des interrogatoires après défense (398 C.p.c.) de Mario Sévigny et Brian Tossan, représentants de la défenderesse.
1. LE RECOURS AUTORISÉ
[2] Le 26 octobre 2007, le juge Baker rejette la requête amendée des demandeurs pour autorisation d'exercer un recours collectif et pour être représentant. Le recours à l’origine était dirigé contre la défenderesse et contre General Motors Corporation (USA).
[3] Le 26 septembre 2008, la Cour d'appel[1] infirme le jugement de première instance et accueille la requête en autorisation pour le compte des groupes suivants :
AUTORISE l'exercice du recours collectif suivant :
Une requête introductive d'instance en responsabilité, en dommages-intérêts, en dommages exemplaires et en remboursement des sommes payées ou à encourir ultérieurement pour réparer les pièces défectueuses et une demande de compensation de 250 000 $ en faveur de la corequérante Association pour la protection automobile;
ATTRIBUE aux corequérants le statut de représentant aux fins de l'exercice du recours collectif pour le compte du groupe décrit comme suit :
Toutes les personnes physiques résidant au Québec et toutes les personnes morales de droit privé, sociétés ou associations résidant au Québec et comptant en tout temps au cours de la période de 12 mois qui précèdent la présente requête pour autorisation sous leur direction ou sous leur contrôle au plus 50 personnes liées à elles par contrat de travail, qui ont acheté ou loué un véhicule de marque Chevrolet, modèle Venture des années 1997 à 2004, ou un véhicule de marque Pontiac, modèles Trans Sport/Montana des années 1997 à 2004, ou un véhicule de marque Oldsmobile, modèle Silhouette des années 1998 à 2004, faisant l'objet ou ayant fait l'objet de problèmes de corrosion ou d'écaillement de la peinture.
[4] La Cour d'appel détermine les questions communes suivantes :
· Les problèmes de corrosion ou d'écaillement de la peinture sur les véhicules de marque Chevrolet Venture des années 1997 à 2004 et de marque Pontiac Trans Sport/Montana des années 1997 à 2004 et de marque Oldsmobile Silhouette des années 1998 à 2004 fabriqués ou vendus par les intimées surviennent-ils prématurément par rapport à des biens identiques ou de même espèce ?
· Les problèmes de corrosion ou d'écaillement de la peinture sur les véhicules de marque Chevrolet Venture des années 1997 à 2004, de marque Pontiac Trans Sport/Montana des années 1997 à 2004 et de marque Oldsmobile Silhouette des années 1998 à 2004 fabriqués ou vendus par les intimées constituent-ils un vice de conception ou de fabrication pour lequel les intimées sont légalement responsables ?
· Les intimées ont-elles l'obligation d'assumer les coûts de réparation des véhicules ?
· Les intimées sont-elles responsables des autres dommages subis par les membres ?
· Le corequérant/personne désignée Stéphane Vermette et les membres du groupe ont-ils droit à des dommages exemplaires ?
[5] Elle décrit les conclusions se rattachant au recours collectif comme suit :
ACCUEILLIR la requête des corequérants;
ACCUEILLIR le recours collectif pour tous les membres du groupe;
CONDAMNER solidairement les intimées à rembourser au corequérant/personne désignée Stéphane Vermette les sommes payées ou à encourir ultérieurement pour faire effectuer le remplacement des pièces défectueuses de son véhicule à la suite des problèmes de corrosion ou d'écaillement de la peinture, le tout avec intérêt au taux légal et l'indemnité additionnelle à compter du paiement de cette somme;
CONDAMNER solidairement les intimées à rembourser à chacun des membres du groupe les sommes payées ou à encourir ultérieurement pour le remplacement des pièces défectueuses de leur véhicule à la suite des problèmes de corrosion ou d'écaillement de la peinture, le tout avec intérêt au taux légal et l'indemnité additionnelle à compter du paiement de ces sommes et ORDONNER le recouvrement collectif de ces sommes;
CONDAMNER solidairement les intimées à payer à chacun des membres du groupe, y compris le corequérant/personne désignée Stéphane Vermette, une somme de 300$ à titre de dommages-intérêts pour troubles, tracas et inconvénients, le tout avec intérêt au taux légal et l'indemnité additionnelle à compter de l'institution du présent recours et ORDONNER le recouvrement collectif de ces sommes;
CONDAMNER solidairement les intimées à payer à chacun des membres du groupe, y compris le corequérant/personne désignée Stéphane Vermette, une somme de 500$ à titre de dommages exemplaires, le tout avec intérêt au taux légal et l'indemnité additionnelle à compter du jugement à être prononcé et ORDONNER le recouvrement collectif de ces sommes;
CONDAMNER solidairement les intimées à payer à la corequérante Association pour la protection automobile une somme de 250 000$ à titre de dommages-intérêts et dommages exemplaires, avec intérêt au taux légal et l'indemnité additionnelle à compter de l'institution du présent recours;
LE TOUT avec entiers dépens incluant les frais d'expertise et les frais de publication des avis aux membres;
[6] Le 14 juin 2010, les demandeurs se désistent de leur recours contre General Motors Corporation (USA).
2. LA GESTION DU DOSSIER
[7] Le 12 décembre 2012, le juge en chef rend une ordonnance confiant le dossier à la juge soussignée en remplacement de la juge Poulin.
3. LE DROIT
[8] Le droit applicable aux interrogatoires au préalable est connu. Dans l'arrêt Westinghouse Canada inc.[2], la Cour d'appel le résume ainsi :
1. qu'au stade de l'interrogatoire préalable, tant avant qu'après défense, il y a lieu de favoriser la divulgation la plus complète de la preuve;
2. qu'à ce stade, comme il s'agit d'une communication de la preuve, la preuve divulguée n'est ultimement produite au procès qu'au choix des parties;
3. que le défendeur doit satisfaire le tribunal non pas de la pertinence de la preuve, au sens traditionnel du mot pris dans le contexte d'un procès, mais que la communication de l'écrit est utile, appropriée, susceptible de faire progresser le débat, reposant sur un objectif acceptable qu'il cherche à atteindre dans le dossier, que l'écrit dont il recherche la communication se rapporte au litige;
4. que cette communication ne peut constituer une « recherche à l'aveuglette »;
5. que l'écrit soit susceptible de constituer une preuve en soi.
[9] Dans Glegg c. Smith & Nephew Inc[3], la Cour suprême du Canada rappelle le principe modérateur de la conduite de la preuve civile, y compris au stade des interrogatoires préalables, soit celui de la pertinence de la preuve. On y lit ce qui suit :
22. (…) La pertinence s’apprécie alors
principalement par rapport aux allégations contenues dans les actes de
procédure (Lac d’Amiante du Québec Ltée c. 2858-0702 Québec Inc.,
23. À l’occasion d’un interrogatoire préalable ou de la communication de la preuve au cours de la mise en état du dossier, ce concept de pertinence s’apprécie largement. Il correspond à une notion d’utilité pour la conduite de l’instance comme le soulignait le juge Proulx à l’occasion d’un débat sur la communication d’un écrit :
. . . le défendeur doit satisfaire le tribunal non pas de la pertinence de la preuve, au sens traditionnel du mot pris dans le contexte d’un procès, mais que la communication de l’écrit est utile, appropriée, susceptible de faire progresser le débat, reposant sur un objectif acceptable qu’il cherche à atteindre dans le dossier, que l’écrit dont il recherche la communication se rapporte au litige.
[10] La Cour suprême ajoute toutefois que le juge «…devra se soucier de ne pas permettre que la divulgation de documents ou les questions posées lors des interrogatoires préalables dépassent les bornes de ce qui est pertinent, c’est-à-dire utile pour l’affaire.(..)».
[11] Une demande de communication trop large peut justifier le maintien d'une objection[4].
[12] Une question qui porte sur la pensée et la réflexion de l'auteur d'un écrit n'est pas pertinente[5].
[13] Une question qui sollicite une opinion n'est pas permise ni une question qui présume d'un fait non établi[6].
[14] En l’espèce, les parties s'entendent sur les principes applicables, le désaccord réside évidemment sur l'application de ces principes aux questions en litige.
4. DISCUSSION
[15] Tout au long des plaidoiries, les parties ont collaboré à la recherche de solutions, ce qui a permis d'écourter considérablement le débat.
[16] À la demande de la soussignée, les procureurs ont fourni chacun un cahier des motifs et principes reliés aux objections soumises. Le cahier soumis par la défenderesse ayant le bénéfice de regrouper les objections par catégorie, en début d’audiences il fut convenu avec les parties d'utiliser le tableau préparé par celle-ci pour disposer des objections. Le tableau est joint au présent jugement en annexe 1.
[17] Afin de rendre justice aux motifs invoqués par les demandeurs quant aux objections soulevés par la défenderesse, le Tribunal joint également en annexe 2 du présent jugement les deux cahiers et tableaux préparés par ceux-ci.
[18] Sujet à ce qui précède et à moins qu'il ne soit indiqué différemment ou que des motifs additionnels soient ajoutés par le Tribunal, lorsqu'une objection est maintenue ou rejetée, elle l'est pour les raisons invoquées par les procureurs des parties dans les annexes 1 et 2 jointes au présent jugement.
[19] Lors des interrogatoires après défense des représentants de la défenderesse, plusieurs questions ont été répondues par ces derniers sous réserve de l'objection soulevée par le procureur de la défenderesse. La réponse ayant été donnée, l'objection sera donc maintenue uniquement quant à la réserve du droit de la défenderesse de soulever à nouveau l’objection lors des auditions au mérite, si elle le juge opportun.
[20] Enfin, lors des plaidoiries, le procureur des demandeurs a reformulé plusieurs questions faisant l’objet en une seule, ce à quoi a consenti le procureur de la défenderesse. Pour celles-ci, la mention reformulée sera indiquée à côté du numéro de l’objection.
[21] Le Tribunal se réserve aussi le droit de permettre aux demandeurs de reformuler leur question, lorsque jugé opportun.
[22] Passons donc maintenant aux questions et objections énumérées dans le tableau de l’annexe 1.
A. QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS FOR UNDERSTANDINGS CONCERNING EVENTS WHICH TOOK PLACE OUTSIDE OF QUEBEC
(a) Mario Sevigny
i) Requests for undertakings: 43, 58, 59, 60
[23] No 39 : objection maintenue. La question élargit inutilement le débat et ouvre la porte à une recherche à l’aveuglette non susceptible de faire progresser le débat.
[24] No 53 : objection rejetée. La question est pertinente à des fins comparatives.
[25] No 54 : objection rejetée. La question est pertinente à des fins comparatives.
[26] No 55 : objection rejetée. La demande est pertinente. Le Tribunal ordonne à la défenderesse de fournir l’information dans la mesure où il est possible de le faire par des moyens informatiques.
(b) Brian Tossan
(i) Questions 864
[27] No 38 : question retirée.
B. QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS FOR UNDERTAKINGS CONCERNING MODELS THAT ARE NOT THE OBJECT OF THE CLASS ACTION IN QUESTION
(a) Mario Sévigny)
i) Question 556:
[28] No 29 : objection maintenue quant à la sous-question question concernant le nombre de remplacements des toitures dans le monde. L’objection est cependant rejetée en ce qui concerne le remplacement des toitures dans la province du Québec. La question est pertinente.
ii) Request for undertakings 35, 36, 38
[29] No 30 : objection maintenue. La question est pertinente, mais mal formulée. La qualification « aussi élevée » dépend du nombre de véhicules vendus. Le Tribunal permet aux demandeurs de reformuler leur question et de la transmettre à la défenderesse dans les 10 jours du présent jugement.
[30] No 31 : objection maintenue. La question est pertinente, mais mal formulée. La qualification « aussi élevée » dépend du nombre de véhicules vendus. Le Tribunal permet aux demandeurs de reformuler leur question et de la transmettre à la défenderesse dans les 10 jours du présent jugement.
[31] No 33 : objection maintenue. La question telle que formulée est trop large, vague, ambigüe et ne permet pas de faire avancer le débat.
C. IRRELEVANT FINANCIAL INFORMATION
(a) Mario Sévigny:
i) Requests for undertakings:3
[32] No 2 : Le Tribunal prend acte de l’engagement de la défenderesse de communiquer les documents aux demandeurs en temps opportun. Les parties conviennent que l'information et les documents seront transmis dans les semaines qui précéderont le début des audiences au mérite. Les parties veilleront à s’entendre quant au moment opportun ainsi que sur la nécessité ou non de communiquer ceux-ci dans le cadre d’une entente de confidentialité et des modalités de celle-ci s’il y a lieu. Si les parties ne peuvent s’entendre, elles soumettront la question au Tribunal.
D. OTHERWISE IRRELEVANT QUESTIONS
(a) Mario Sévigny:
i) Question 124 :
[33] N° 70 : question retirée.
[34] No 15 : la réponse a été donnée, toutefois le Tribunal réserve le droit de la défenderesse de soulever de nouveau son objection lors de l'audition au mérite.
[35] No 46 : la question est reformulée par les demandeurs comme suit : « La défenderesse a-t-elle racheté des véhicules de clients qui avaient les problèmes visés pour la période visée ». Le Tribunal prend acte de l’engagement de la défenderesse de vérifier si elle a l'information à cet égard et, auquel cas, de la communiquer aux demandeurs, sous réserve de son droit de soulever de nouveau son objection lors des audiences au mérite, si elle le juge opportun.
III. QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS FOR UNDERTAKINGS THAT AMOUNT TO A FISHING EXPEDITION
(a) Mario Sévigny
i) Requests for undertakings 74, 76, 78, 80, 81
[36] No 73 : Le Tribunal prend acte de l’engagement suivant : « la défenderesse va faire les efforts raisonnables pour fournir aux demandeurs avant l'interrogatoire de monsieur O'Donnel une copie de tout document qui ne soit pas privilégié en la possession ou sous le contrôle de Général Motors Canada Limitée et/ou un représentant relativement aux problèmes visés pour la période visée. Aux fins de cet engagement les parties conviennent de ce qui suit : les mots « document », « représentant », « problèmes visés » et « périodes visées » s'entendent conformément au document intitulé « Définitions Applicables aux Interrogatoires des Représentants de Général Motors du Canada limitée » identifié comme étant la pièce SM-1, à l'exception du mot « document » lequel est modifié en retirant toute référence aux mots « toute banque de données ou extrait de banque de données pertinente ».
[37] No 74 : la question est reformulée, voir no.73.
[38] No 75 : la question est reformulée, voir no 73.
[39] No 76 : la question est reformulée, voir no.73.
[40] No 77 : la question est reformulée, voir no.73.
(b) Brian Tossan
i) Requests for undertakings: 88
[41] No.88 : question reformulée, voir no.73.
IV. QUESTION OF FACTS ON WHICH THE WITNESS HAS NO KNOWLEDGE
(a) Mario Sévigny
i) Questions which do not regard facts of which the witness has knowledge: 131, 132, 140, 141, 143, 153, 157, 269, 270, 353, 676, 125
[42] No 3 : question reformulée, voir no. 7, (paragraphe 79 du jugement).
[43] No 4 : question reformulée, voir no. 7 (paragraphe 79 du jugement).
[44] No 5 : question reformulée, voir no. 7 (paragraphe 79 du jugement).
[45] No 6 : question reformulée, voir no. 7 (paragraphe 79 du jugement).
[46] No 8 : question reformulée, voir no. 7 (paragraphe 79 du jugement).
[47] No 9 : question reformulée, voir no. 7 (paragraphe 79 du jugement).
[48] No 24 :question retirée.
[49] No 25 :question retirée.
[50] No 26 : question reformulée comme suit : « Outre les bulletins P-16, P-20 et E-25, existe-il d'autres bulletins concernant les problèmes visés? » Le Tribunal prend acte de l’engagement de la défenderesse de répondre à la question.
[51] No.36 : objection rejetée. Toutefois, la réponse sera donnée quant à la situation corporative actuelle, ce qui n’engage pas la responsabilité de la défenderesse si celle-ci change ultérieurement sa structure corporative. On ne peut présumer que la structure corporative actuelle sera la même lorsque la décision sera rendue sur le fond de la requête introductive d'instance.
[52] No 71 : objection maintenue.
ii) Legal questions : 182, 183, 184, 187, 188, 189
[53] No 11 : objection maintenue.
[54] No 12 : objection maintenue.
[55] No 13 : objection maintenue.
[56] No 14 : objection maintenue.
[57] No 15 : objection maintenue.
[58] No 16 : objection maintenue.
[59] No 17 : objection maintenue.
[60] No 72 : question retirée.
(b) Brian Tossan
i) Questions which do not regard facts of which the witness has knowledge: 383, 419, 426, 449, 461, 499, 522, 553, 554, 603
[61] No 49 : question retirée.
[62] No 55 : question retirée.
[63] No 58 : objection maintenue quant à la question telle que formulée. Cependant, un représentant de GM Canada devra répondre à la question s'il y a eu des rappels[7] chez ou par GM Canada des véhicules faisant l'objet des problèmes visés pour la période visée.
[64] No 60 : objection maintenue.
[65] No 63 :objection rejetée. La question est pertinente. La défenderesse devra transmettre l’information ou trouver un représentant qualifié pour répondre à la question.
[66] No 69 : question retirée.
[67] Nº 71 : objection maintenue. Mario Sévigny a répondu à la question. Toutefois, tel que proposé par la défenderesse, les demandeurs pourront poser la question au représentant de la défenderesse M. O’Donnel qui sera interrogé au préalable prochainement, s’ils le jugent opportun.
[68] No 75 : objection maintenue. Toutefois, tel que proposé par la défenderesse, les demandeurs pourront poser la question au représentant de la défenderesse, M. O’Donnel, qui sera interrogé au préalable prochainement, s’ils le jugent opportun.
[69] No 80 : question retirée.
ii) Undertakings which do not regard facts of which the witness has personal knowledge: 41, 42, 43, 51
[70] No 79 : question retirée.
[71] No 84 : objection maintenue.
[72] Nº 85 : question retirée.
[73] Nº 87 : objection rejetée. La question sera répondue par M. O'Donnel. À défaut, par ce dernier de pouvoir y répondre, la défenderesse devra communiquer l’information aux demandeurs ou identifier un représentant pouvant y répondre.
i) Questions requiring analysis of information by the witness: 842, 843, 844, 848, 863, 610
[74] No 30 : question retirée. Les demandeurs vont consulter leur expert afin de discuter de quelle façon et avec l’aide de quel logiciel ou autre outil informatique ces derniers pourront analyser les données brutes fournies par la défenderesse. Une fois que l'expert aura transmis son rapport, les parties tenteront de s’entendre entre elles. S’il n’y a pas d’entente, les parties soumettront de nouveau les questions au Tribunal afin que les objections soient tranchées.
[75] No 31 : voir no 30
[76] No 32 : voir no.30.
[77] No 37 : voir no.30.
[78] No 82 : question retirée.
V. Varia
(a) Mario Sévigny
(i) Improperly formulated questions: 152, 418, 76
[79] No 7 : question reformulée comme suit : « Outre les livrets de garantie, existe-t-il des directives chez GM Canada pour déterminer l'application de la garantie contractuelle relativement à la corrosion et à la perforation? ». Le Tribunal prend acte de l’engagement de la défenderesse de répondre à la question.
[80] No 27 : question retirée.
[81] No 59 : question retirée.
(b) Brian Tossan
(i) Questions which constitute an editorial: 455, 456, 457, 458, 606, 693
[82] No 61 : question retirée.
[83] No 62 : question retirée.
[84] No 81 : question retirée.
[85] No 86 : objection maintenue.
(ii) Improperly formulated questions : 704, 862, 401,422, 613
[86] No 24 : question retirée.
[87] No 36 : question retirée.
[88] No 50 : question retirée.
[89] No 57 : objection maintenue.
[90] No 83 : question retirée.
VI. QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND UNDERTAKINGS PROVIDED: MARIO SÉVIGNY
[91] À l’exception des objections 10, 50 et 41, les réponses aux autres questions concernant Mario Sévigny sous ce chapitre ont été données, toutefois le Tribunal réserve le droit de la défenderesse de soulever de nouveau ses objections lors de l’audition de la cause au mérite.
[92] No 10 : question reformulée, voir no. 7, (paragraphe 79 du jugement).
[93] No 41 : La partie de la question se terminant par « Relay » a été répondue. Quant à la partie de la question commençant par « spécifier où ces véhicules… », l’objection est rejetée. La question est pertinente. Les demandeurs entendent faire la preuve que la défenderesse a modifié par la suite ses véhicules afin de corriger les défaillances des véhicules visés faisant l'objet du litige. Ce n’est pas parce que le recours est limité aux véhicules visés pour la période visée que cette preuve n'est pas pertinente. Le Tribunal qui décidera du fond du litige sera plus à même d'en déterminer la valeur probante. Toutefois, la question sera restreinte aux modèles vendus au Québec et au Canada.
[94] No. 50 : La réponse a été fournie sous réserve de l'objection, laquelle pourra être soulevée de nouveau lors de l'audition au mérite. Le Tribunal prend acte de l’engagement de la défenderesse de fournir les pages manquantes à l’engagement D-4 dans les plus brefs délais.
VII. QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND UNDERTAKINGS PROVIDED: BRIAN TOSSAN
[95] À l’exception des objections numéros 5, 6, 44, 72, les réponses aux autres questions concernant Brian Tossan sous ce chapitre ont a été données, toutefois le Tribunal réserve le droit de la défenderesse de soulever de nouveau ses objections lors de l’audition de la cause au mérite.
[96] No 5 : objection rejetée. Le Tribunal prend acte de l’engagement de la défenderesse de continuer à vérifier l’information quant aux toits non comptabilisés dans E-12 et de communiquer celle-ci aux demandeurs dans les plus brefs délais.
[97] No 6 : objection rejetée. Le Tribunal prend acte de l’engagement de la défenderesse de continuer à vérifier l’information quant aux toits non comptabilisés dans MS-3 et de communiquer celle-ci aux demandeurs dans les plus brefs délais.
[98] No 44 : question retirée pour les raisons invoquées à l'objection no. 30 (paragraphe 74 du jugement).
[99] No 72 : objection rejetée. La question est pertinente. Le Tribunal permet la question dans la mesure où le témoin peut y répondre.
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POUR CES MOTIFS, LE TRIBUNAL :
[100] PREND ACTE des questions retirées et des engagements des parties comme indiqué dans le présent jugement; [101] DÉCIDE des objections soumises selon les termes de la présente décision en tenant compte des Tableaux joints aux annexes 1 et 2; [102] LE TOUT, frais à suivre.
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__________________________________ JOHANNE MAINVILLE, J.C.S. |
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Me Guy Paquette |
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PAQUETTE GADLER |
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Procureurs des demandeurs |
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Me Laurent Nahmiash |
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FRASER MILNER CASGRAIN |
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Procureurs des Défenderesses |
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Date d’audience : |
Le 17 janvier 2013 |
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ANNEX 1
DEFENDANT'S BRIEF OF ARGUMENTS FOR
DEBATE ON OBJECTIONS OF
JANUARY 17 AND 18, 2013
ANNEXE 2
A) TABLEAU DES OBJECTIONS
PRÉPARÉ PAR LES DEMANDEURS
(MARIO SÉVIGNY)
B) TABLEAU DES OBJECTIONS
PRÉPARÉ PAR LES DEMANDEURS
(BRIAN TOSSAN)
No.
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Objection |
Extrait |
Arguments |
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1. |
Q. 124
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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Qualifications/formation du représentant GM
118Q-Which level is this job now? A- This is an eighth level position.
119Q-Okay. Was that requiring any of the two (2) things that you have acquired over the years from an academic point of view, that means, either engineering as a qualification, or communication, or advertising, or what you may have acquired through your MBA? A- Yes, I really don't remember what was required. I wasn't involved in the requirements process. 120Q-Okay. Do you know today what is required from your job? And I'm not being sarcastic. I just want...what... A- I have a better appreciation of... 121Q-Yes. A- ... what's important in the position, yes.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 122Q-No, but I think he means what's the functions of your job, what are your assigned functions and responsibilities. A- Oh, yes, yes. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 123Q-No, no, but just before I go to that, my question was more based on all the credentials that you have from an academic point of view, what is very useful right now in your new position from what you learned from school or from work and... A- I guess there's a number of things that are useful, you know. Certainly, in MBA school you learn about business cases and you learn about finance and those sorts of things. So that's helpful. We also learn a lot in business school of this concept of customer centricity being important in business. And, certainly, some of that training can apply, you know, when you...
124Q-Do you think that somebody who has no engineering background can do this job?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Just opinion. I mean, I have let you go, but we're very, very, very far from the case. I realize this is a really interesting discussion, but it really has nothing to do with this case.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, but I...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And it's opinion. And he's here to answer questions of facts, not management opinions as to what's required for a position. If you...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. I will...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If you want to try to convince me that deposing...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, I will rephrase. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... his boss to see what his job qualifications are, you know... Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, I understand. And I just want to know better Mr. Tossan. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, no, but I don't want him to start issuing opinions of any kind. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's not what he's here for. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. I will rephrase my question. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 125Q-Do you know if engineering background is necessary to fulfil this position?
A- No, I don't know that.
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Paquette Gadler : La question a été reformulée à Q.125 et répondue.
Objection n’a pas à être débattue dans la mesure où la réponse donnée à Q.125 est acceptée. |
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2. |
Q. 129 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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Qualifications/formation du représentant GM
126Q-Okay. Do you know if any kind of commercial or communication or everything that you can... business formation is necessary to fulfil this job? A- I can't say I would know that, no. 127Q-Okay. That means I'm coming back to my previous question; what is necessary to fulfil this job?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He just said three (3) times, in terms of the people who created the position, he doesn't know. From a point of what's necessary for what he does every day, that, he can talk to.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I just want to make that distinction. He knows what his functions are.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Well, that...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: What credentials are required to perform his functions according to the people who hired him, we'd have to ask the people who hired him. All right?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. I understand that, Maitre Nahmiash, but...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And whether or not they relied on his MBA experience; whether they relied on his engineering background; whether they relied on something else, that's in his, you know, personal background as well to make him an interesting candidate. As you know, there is a whole bunch of things that go into the job interview process and I don't think he was necessarily privy to everything that was going on the other side of the table when he got hired.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I understand that, Maitre Nahmiash. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 128Q-But my question is, from your knowledge today, what is necessary to fulfil the position that you're in right now?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: From an academic standpoint?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No. Just from a general background standpoint.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. A- I think, you know, some important characteristics would be good organizational ability, communication, communication ability or... or, you know, some attributes in that area are very helpful. And...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 129Q-IT? A- IT, I don't know much about IT. So it probably would be helpful, but I can't say whether or not it's necessarily something that would be good... I think it would be helpful, but I can't say that for sure. 130Q-Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 131Q-There's a distinction between helpful and necessary; he's only asked you whether it was helpful. So to the extent that's relevant, I'll let it go under reserve, but I'm not convinced that it's relevant in any way, shape or form.
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Paquette Gadler : La question a été répondue à Q.129.
Objection n’a pas a être débattue dans la mesure où la réponse donnée à Q.129 est acceptée. |
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3. |
Q. 189
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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NOMBRE DE REMPLACEMENTS (Relation avec M. D’Aurelio)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 183Q-Mr... I have a problem with his name. A- D'Aurelio. 184Q-Yes, he is the boss of Mr. Sévigny? A- Correct. I think, yes. 185Q-Okay. That means you have no idea in fact what Mr. D'Aurelio's team is doing? A- No, I have a loose understanding of what they do. 186Q-What does it... what is it? A- So, as I said before, I think there is different things that Paul's team would look at, including after sales parts, as one item, for instance, GM accessories. Customers would buy GM accessories from a dealer; these are accessories that you'd put onto your vehicle after you purchased the vehicle. 187Q-Okay. A- Floor mats or something like that. And that area of accessories would be under Paul. Paul also, I think, also owns the regional managers for the different zones. We divide Canada up into sort of three (3) main zones: an eastern zone, a central zone and a western zone. And in each of those zones there is a regional manager. And inside each of the regional manager's responsibilities there are district managers inside each of the zones. 188Q-Like Mr. Sévigny? A- Actually, I think Mr. Sévigny is a regional manager. 189Q-Okay. Okay, that's my understanding. When you said that he is responsible for... Mr. D'Aurelio is responsible for the sales of parts, does that include parts for repair later on that is not going through the GM...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to the question. I'm going to establish that parts don't go through the GM. Whatever you're going to say. Don't include preconceived conclusions in your questions to the witness, especially when he told you he only had a loose understanding of what Mr. D'Aurelio is doing.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. You're correct, Mr. Nahmiash. I will rephrase my question. 190Q-Mr. Tossan, when... and we'll come back later on to that subject specifically. My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, is that when people have corrosion problem or other problems covered by this class action, with their roof for example, I will take the roof because we know that about three thousand seven hundred (3,700) roofs have been changed on the fifteen thousand (15,000) vehicles that are covered by this class action that have been sold in Quebec. Did you have... do you know these figures?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 191Q-Are you personally aware of these figures? A- I haven't... I don't know these figures.
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4. |
Q.193 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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NOMBRE DE REMPLACEMENTS (Relation avec M. D’Aurelio) REMPLACEMENTS DE TOITS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 192Q-Okay. A- ... off the back of my head, no. 193Q-When these roofs were changed, okay, some were under warranty, okay, and they were changed - either the standard guarantee or the goodwill guarantee, okay - and they were changed by the dealers, okay, but some were not covered by the warranty by GM and they had to go somewhere else to change the roof, okay, and paid for it. When they go somewhere else, the body shop that was doing the modification or the change of the roof had to buy a new roof to replace the old one, okay? What I would like to know, if you know if these roofs were sold through Mr. D'Aurelio group or under Mr. D'Aurelio responsibility, if you want?
A- I have no...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve of my objection as to the conclusiveness and presumptiveness of the question and lack of foundation for the question.
194Q-Go ahead. Do you know anything about that? A- I don't... I don't know anything about that.
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5. |
Q. 195
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
NOMBRE DE REMPLACEMENTS (Relation avec M. D’Aurelio) REMPLACEMENTS DE TOITS
Me GUY PAQUETTE:
195Q-Okay. Mr. Tossan, as an undertaking I will ask you to verify how many roofs have been sold by GM Canada during the period covered by the class action, to dealers, GM dealers in Quebec.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to the question. You've asked for a customer care centre representative, he's not the person to ask that question. Maybe when we get to the next witness, in engineering, or maybe you should have come back with Mr. Sévigny and asked him the question but, certainly, I don't know why somebody from a customer care services department is... start making or wasting his time with these inquiries. They're not his domain of knowledge, expertise or function.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Just for the purpose of the record, to answer to your objection, Mr. Nahmiash. I am referring to the Undertaking number E-48 and E-32 of Mr. Sévigny's interrogatory.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes. I realize that, and that's the point I just made. I don't think he's the appropriate witness to ask that undertaking from.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: But just... how many roofs sold by GM - just to be clear, say it... finish your...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay, let me try to be more precise, okay?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm. During the entire period, is what I understood.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 196Q-We understand that on the fifteen thousand (15,000)- juste une seconde - subject vehicles by this class action, about three thousand seven hundred (3,700) had their roof changed. What I would like to know, it's how many roof have been sold or purchased...sold by GM Canada or purchased by GM dealers during the class action period for the subject vehicles. What I mean by that - let me be more precise, okay, I want it to be very clear on the transcript. We know that when it was under warranty, GM has changed three thousand seven hundred (3,700) roofs during the period, okay?
LAURENT NAHMIASH: You're referring to whatever number is in MS-3? Because I'm not going to go verify it right now to see if it's accurate, but is that what you're referring to?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes, okay. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay, but... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: All right. Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... I can give you the reference, if you want. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's all right. It's approximate. It sounds right. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under subject of whatever the document says, okay? Me GUY PAQUETTE: It's like twenty-one point two percent (21.2%) of the car... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm. Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... that are subject to this class action, that their roofs were replaced. 197Q-And...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Because I think the category may be... anyways, go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt. Go ahead.
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Paquette Gadler :
Cette objection doit être lue avec l’objection sous U-2.
Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-2 : “GMCL is still verifying and gathering data to respond to this undertaking ”
Objection n’a pas à être débattue tout de suite vu la réponse à l’engagement U-2. |
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6. |
U-2
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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NOMBRE DE REMPLACEMENTS (Relation avec M. D’Aurelio) REMPLACEMENTS DE TOITS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. 198Q-But I understand also that some people were refused under warranty and had to go to body shop to have their roof either repaired or replaced.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Q-And that, if a body shop wanted to buy a roof to replace a roof that was defective... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 200Q-... they had no choice but then to go to a GM dealers to buy such a roof. And what I want to know is how many roofs have been utilized - if I can use this expression - in Quebec during that period for the subject vehicles, either because they were used to replace a roof under warranty or they were sold to a third party who replaced the roof that was not under warranty.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I think we've... you referred to E-32 as well? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And what was the other one? Me GUY PAQUETTE: E-48. Because, in E-48, you said that...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: GM does not sell any parts, body parts...sorry, GM only sells body parts to its dealers.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: That's my understanding.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And you already have the figures that GM sold...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. No, I don't have the figures that GM sold. That's really my undertaking that I am asking for. I know... we know that GM dealers replaced three thousand seven hundred (3,700) roofs during the period. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm. Me GUY PAQUETTE: What we want to know is how many roofs GM Canada has sold to its dealers during the period.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: But how do you know that roof is only used for that type of vehicle? You haven't laid any foundation to the... I know where you're going with this, but there's absolutely... you haven't established that the roof, the same roof is not used for other models. And you want us to try to go on a goose chase to figure out whether or not the same part number has been sold to third parties, and if we have a record of this.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: But if we look at...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Because we've... we agree we have given you the number of roofs that was sold to dealers for the purpose of warranty replacements.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: That, we have that in MS-3.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. I want to know if this particular... or these particular parts that are referred to in MS-3, okay, as roofs, if others were sold by GM Canada to its dealers during the period of the class action.
Undertaking #2
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. Well, I'm going to object because, for the time being, I think it's premature. When you get somebody from engineering and you establish that that roof is sold exclusively for this type of vehicles and wasn't used for any other type of vehicle, and when you establish with a witness from engineering that that information is available, or possibly available, then we'll take the undertaking, but Mr. Tossan can't elucidate on either of those issues, and I certainly won't at this stage, because I don't know...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. We'll let Mrs. Justice Poulin decide the objection.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And like I say, my objection is, you're asking the question to the wrong witness and without having established proper foundation that it's relevant or that it's worthwhile going to look for the information.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-2 : “GMCL is still verifying and gathering data to respond to this undertaking ”
Paquette Gadler: Objection n’a pas à être débattue tout de suite vu la réponse à l’engagement U-2.
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7. |
U-3 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC)
207Q-Okay. How many people work within the centre? A- The centre has about a hundred and fifty individuals. 208Q-Okay. And who is responsible for the centre? A- So I think it's important to understand that the centre is a... General Motors has decided to outsource this activity, customer care centre, essentially in its entirety. So the customer care centre is essentially... that that business was awarded to Minacs. 209Q-What's the name? A- Minacs. M-I-N, as in Nancy, A-C-S. 210Q-When has that been done? A- For a long time Minacs has run the customer care centre, probably just under twenty (20) years, maybe eighteen (18), nineteen (19) years. 211Q-Okay. You personally, do you work for Minacs? A- I do not work for Minacs. 212Q-You work for GM Canada? A- I am a General Motors employee. 213Q-Okay. That means, the one hundred and fifty (150) persons that you were referring as working at the GM Canada Customer Care Centre in Oshawa, are they employees of GM Canada or Minacs? A- They are Minacs' employees. 214Q-Okay. And who's in charge of these employees? A- There is an organizational structure that Minacs has in place... 215Q-Okay. A- ... with management and executive. 216Q-Okay. A- And they run the operation. 217Q-Okay. Do you know who is the president of this organization? A- The president of the organization, of Minacs? 218Q-Yes. A- Yes.
219Q-What's his name?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you mean in Oshawa or you mean worldwide?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: In Oshawa.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 220Q-Is there a president in Oshawa?
A- No, there is no president - sorry - there is no president in Oshawa.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 221Q-Okay. Minacs... A- Minacs is a global organization. 222Q-And it's doing the customer care for all the GM Canada... GM customers around the world? A- No. 223Q-Okay. Which country? A- I...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 224Q-If you know. A- I'm not familiar with all of Minacs' business...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 225Q-Yes.
A- ... but I know for sure that they do our Customer Care Centre here in Canada, and I believe they have other pieces of GM business, but I am not... 226Q-Do you know if they do it in the States? A- I don't know for sure. 227Q-Okay. As an undertaking I will ask you to verify if they are also taking care of the customer care of GM in the U.S. A- Okay.
Undertaking #3
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve. Why is that relevant? I mean, it's not a big deal, but I'm just curious why is that relevant?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: For us it's quite relevant because the kind of customer care that the GM clients can expect in Canada, and the way that they have been treated in this file with regard to what is being done, for example, in the States, which is our neighbour. We have seen the last time, for example, that the employees of Mr. Sévigny were located in the States and paid by GM Canada, but there were American employees. And we want to understand completely and correctly what is the structure of the person that answered the complaints of the members of the group in this particular class action.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: In Canada?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So, anyways, I don't agree with the way you have formulated what transpired in Mr. Sévigny's deposition, I'm just saying that for the record. I'll take it under reserve; if it's simple enough to find out, I'll let you know, but I could tell you right now that I'm not going to allow any discovery on the U.S. customer care centre...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... for obvious... for reasons which you know... Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay, but... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... there's been a discontinuance... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... my only question on that is the undertaking that I just asked. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-3 : “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection as to relevance, Minacs provides services only to one call center in Austin Texas which is focused on infotainment (radio inquiries) ”
Paquette Gadler: L’engagement U-3 découle de la réponse du témoin qui indique : « and I believe they have other pieces of GM business ». Vu l’interaction entre GM Canada et GM aux États-Unis (voir également, entre autres, la réponse à Q. 264), il nous apparaît essentiel de bien comprendre la structure du Centre de service à la clientèle (« Customer Care Centre ») et surtout où sont prises les décisions majeures concernant ce centre. |
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8. |
U-4 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC)
254Q-Okay. On the one hundred fifty (150) employees that Minacs has within the centre, how many will you say that are allocated to the fleet consumer care services? A- I don't know the exact number. 255Q-Okay. As an undertaking I will ask you to verify that and provide us with the information. A- Okay.
256Q-Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 257Q-Could you give us an approximation? A- Yes, it's probably four (4) or five (5). 258Q- Do you still want the undertaking?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Do you know what? If they have any kind of chart or organigramme for the Customer Care Centre run by Minacs, I will ask you to provide me that as an undertaking.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 259Q-Are you aware of any such chart? A- An organizational chart?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 260Q-Yes. A- There is an organizational chart.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 261Q-Okay. A- I will have to ask for, I guess, permission from Minacs to share it. 262Q-M'hm. We'll let you know. Under reserve of any issue of confidentiality or whatever it concerns. I don't see any offhand, but just in case.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-4 : “Under reserve of GMCL’S objection as to relevance, the CCC personnel are all employees of Minacs. A copy of the organizational chart is enclosed ”
Paquette Gadler: Lors de l’interrogatoire du témoin, aucune objection concernant la pertinence (“relevance”) n’a été soulevée. Seule une objection concernant la confidentialité a été soulevée. Comme le document nous a été remis sans réserve quant à sa confidentialité, mais seulement quant à sa pertinence, nous comprenons mal cette nouvelle objection. |
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9. |
U-5 (under reserve of objection)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC) Interaction entre GM CANADA, GM USA et MINACS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 263Q-Now, before we look at the Centre as such, I would like to understand the relationship between GM Canada, GM U.S., if there are any, and Minacs, with regard to the management of the Customer Care Centre. A- Okay. Sorry, your... your question? 264Q-I would like you to explain to me what is the relationship, how it works, between GM Canada, GM USA, if it has anything to do with it, and Minacs for the GM Canada Customer Care Centre that is located in Oshawa. A- Okay. So the relationship between GM Canada Customer Care Centre and GM U.S., there is no real formal relationship per se. We certainly interact, you know, as any large organization does in terms of, you know, having some... you know, we understand what's happening in different parts, so we don't want to be completely segregated or siloed... 265Q-Yes. A- ... in terms of the way we approach some of the business. 266Q-Yes. A- But there is no formal interaction that occurs. You know, there's no regular meeting et cetera. Relative to General Motors of Canada and Minacs... 267Q-Yes. A- ... as I mentioned before, the relationship is a formal relationship. 268Q-Yes. A- There is a contract between GM of Canada and Minacs... 269Q-Okay. As an undertaking... A- ... to... 270Q-... I will ask you to provide us with a copy of that contract.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Why do you need that contract in the context of a product liability class action?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Because I think that the complaints treatment that have been given to GM Canada customers that are covered by this class action is right in the center of this class action.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, show me one allegation that deals with that in your proceeding.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I will, when we'll debate your objection.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH:
Okay. And I just want to... I'll take the undertaking under reserves of my objection, and we'll see how to deal with it later, but another ground for my objection is that you have received five (5)... at least four (4) binders E-83, which provides you with all Customer Care Centre complaints received regarding the subject vehicles during the subject period. And I don't know what Minacs' contract has anything to do with anything in this case, in the circumstances.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-5 : “Under reserve of the GMCL’s objection as to relevance, a copy of the contract between Minacs and GMCL is enclosed ”
Paquette Gadler: L’engagement U-5 découle de la réponse du témoin qui indique qu’un contrat existe entre GM Canada et Minacs.
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10. |
U-6 (under reserve of objection)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC) MINACS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... question.
271Q-Okay. I am coming back, Mr. Tossan, to my question, okay? I just want to understand very well the relationship between the management of the Customer Care Centre by Minacs and GM Canada. Firstly, do you know within GM Canada who's the person ultimately in charge of the management of this contract, for example? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Of the Minacs contract? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. A- Ultimately in charge of the Minacs contract? Me GUY PAQUETTE: 272Q-Yes. But what I mean by that, it's that... A- Okay. 273Q-... you have a Customer Care Centre that is managed by a third party, okay? A- Right. 274Q-I suppose, and tell me if I'm wrong, but that you have a senior officer within GM Canada that is particularly in charge of supervising this joint venture or this relationship; do you know who is this person? A- I mean, I think I have a role in that. 275Q-Yes. A- And then Sandra as well, and... and David. 276Q-Yes, but I want to know up to where we are going with that. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 277Q-You, Sandra, who else? A- So, me, Sandra... Me GUY PAQUETTE: 278Q-Mr. Bakos? A- And David Bakos. 279Q-But... Mr. Bakos' boss can be involved? Is Mr. Turvey ultimately in charge? Where does that stop? A- I'm not sure how to really answer the question. Are you saying, can there be an issue that goes up the chain, is that what you're saying? 280Q-For example, if you want to renew the contract between GM Canada and... A- Oh, okay. 281Q-... who will be in charge of that?
A- There is a multi-functional stakeholder team that has to review that situation. So, for instance, when you want to renew a contract, there is the business owners, which would be, for instance, myself, but there is a General Motors IT stakeholder; there is a purchasing stakeholder; there is a legal stakeholder. It's a multi-function team that would review the contract and figure out... there's a whole process to figure out how to do contract renewal. 282Q-Okay, but, for example, the description of the services that will be rendered by Minacs within the Customer Care Centre, who is in charge of defining this description of services? A- The requirements? 283Q-Yes. A- Yes, that would be within this function here. Myself, Sandra and David Bakos. 5284Q-Okay. As an undertaking I will ask you to provide us with the name of the person that is ultimately in charge of the dealings with Minacs within GM Canada. A- Ultimately in charge of the dealings, okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 285Q-The ultimate decision-making authority in respect of the Minacs relationship. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, that's correct. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 286Q-Who has the last call? Could it be theoretically the... A- I'm... 287Q-... president of General... A- I'm going to need to find out. I don't know. In the time that I've been there... Me GUY PAQUETTE: 288Q-Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve of our objection. I mean, I...maybe I'll agree to tell you who signed the contract on behalf of GM and that will give you an idea. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay, perfect. A- Well... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 289Q-Oh, no, it wouldn't? Okay, so I retract that. That wouldn't. I think the answer to your question...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... depends on the nature of the activity that's being addressed. And I think the witness just answered you: if it's for contract renewal, then there's a process in place; if it's for another subject matter, then other resources kick in. I don't think there's one answer, in other words.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-6 : “Under reserve of GMCL’S objection as to relevance, the individual currently in charge of Minacs is David Bakos ”
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11. |
Q. 339-340 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC) COMMENT JOINDRE LES REPRÉSENTANTS DE GM
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 328Q-Okay. But this centre is managed by a third party that is Minacs; it's not managed by GM Canada? A- Well, I don't know... I don't know if I understand the word "manage". It's being executed by... 329Q-Okay. A- ... a supplier under a contract, with oversight by GM. For instance, by me, in this particular situation. So, no, I wouldn't say that it's a divorced relationship where it's executed in isolation. 330Q-But if Mr. Iny in my example, with his problem, will he be able to talk to you? A- Will he be able to, sorry? 331Q-Talk to you. A- Yes, customers can... it's possible. And... and, I guess, let me just finish my original thought. 332Q-Okay. A- Customers... we put this in many of our materials, we put it on our website, we put it on our owners manuals, that, "If you have questions or inquiries from General Motors, please contact the Customer Care Centre." That is the centre that we talked about. Once those inquiries are received and fielded, depending on the nature of the question, and it almost... many cases it's very case-by-case, we will as a centre contact other resources within the company to address the inquiry. 333Q-Okay. A- So that's why I struggle a little bit with the question around only three (3) people doing customer care service. It really is dependant on how... 334Q-Within GM Canada.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, let him finish, please. 335Q-"It really is dependant..." continue. A- It really is dependant on the case...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 336Q-Okay. A- ... and the situation. And then, certainly, the centre is, most of the time, the first place of contact... 337Q-Yes. A- ... but as part of our normal operation we will reach out and interface with different parts of the organization to address the customer inquiry. 338Q-Okay. I would like to know, Mr. Tossan - you're in place since January first (1st), two thousand twelve (2012)? A- Yes. 339Q-That means six (6) months now? I would like to know... A- Yes. 340Q-... to how many clients of GM Canada you have talked to directly, yourself, with regard to answering their customer care service needs?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve.
341Q-If you know. A- I don't know the exact number of customers I have talked to.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 342Q-Can you give us an approximation? A- I can give you an approximation. It's under twenty (20), I would say. 343Q-Okay. And can you give us example of a situation that involved your implication to answer or to talk to these customers directly? A- I can give you an example. 344Q-Yes. A- But it wouldn't be... it's going to be a different example each time. 345Q-Yes. A- One is not representative of the next, I would say. 346Q-One... I want to understand what's the step that is necessary to move from the Customer Care Centre managed by Minacs to go directly to you. What will it take so that Mr. Iny can talk to you, if he needs, if he has a need? A- Yes, I don't know that there's an established process per se to do that. It's, again, very case- by-case and will rely on the judgement of the people fielding the issue, and if they feel they would like to have my involvement, then they engage my involvement. 347Q-But that means not talking... you talking to somebody at Minacs but talking directly to the customers? A- Yes, that happens as well. 348Q-Okay, but you said...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If your question is, if Mr. Iny calls him directly, is he going to pick up the phone? Because you're suggesting he wouldn't.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, I am not suggesting anything. I'm just here to try to find the facts. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
349Q-You said that... A- Customers would not call me directly, normally. 350Q-I understand that. A- Okay. 351Q-Okay. But how will that happen? Because you said you talked to about twenty (20) persons over the last six (6) months... A- M'hm. 352Q-... twenty (20) customers directly, that's correct? A- Correct. 353Q-Okay. How will that happen? A- Again, it's very case-by-case. So sometimes... sometimes we will have a customer contact the president of General Motors of Canada directly, as an example.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm. A- This has happened. And when that letter comes in or the call come... whatever, the communication comes in, if the president has fielded that or his office has fielded that, sometimes I will get asked to engage with that customer directly. |
Paquette Gadler :
Nous désirons savoir si des appels logés par des membres du groupe ont pu passer du CCC (Minacs) jusqu’au bureau de M. Tossan (General Motors du Canada Ltée.)? En quelle circonstance cela se produit-il.
Objection n’a pas à être débattue dans la mesure où GM permet sans réserve la réponse à Q.346.
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12. |
Q. 356
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC) COMMENT JOINDRE LES REPRÉSENTANTS DE GM
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 354Q-Okay. Any other ways that this may happen? A- Other examples? I think there's many... 355Q-No... A- ... many ways or... 356Q-Yes. No, but that's... that, I can understand, that if the president receives a phone call from his golf buddy that has a problem that cannot be solved, that sometime he may want somebody from the organization involved. It makes sense to me. But I want to know that...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object to that characterization. That wasn't what he said.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He didn't talk about a golf buddy. That's your presumption. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. 357Q-But is that...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Could have been somebody wholly independent, who did not know the president of the company at all, as well. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. 358Q-But is there any other way that are usual that the call of the customer will be directed to you? A- Where I will get engaged with the customer directly? 359Q-Yes. A- There are... there have been some instances where that's occurred.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 360Q-He wants examples. A- Okay. 361Q-Give him some examples. A- Yes. So, for example, we had a situation where... with our SAAB. I don't know if you are familiar with our SAAB situation, but SAAB went bankrupt about, I don't know now, maybe six (6) months ago or so, something... maybe December of two thousand eleven (2011), and there were a lot of customers that were... they wanted to understand what that meant. SAAB was not owned by General Motors at that point in time; it's an independent company. It want bankrupt, and people wanted to understand what GM's position would be in terms of some warranty coverage. We did announce a position in terms of what warranties we would cover. But in that period where it was a little bit uncertain, sometimes customers would call in, you know, and want to understand in more detail, you know, what was happening, and we were still figuring it out at the time, because it happened fairly quickly. So to help manage that flow, I engaged with customers, you know, to be able to explain the situation.
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Paquette Gadler : Objection n’a pas à être débattue dans la mesure où la réponse à Q.358 et Q. 361 est acceptée sans réserve. La question a été reformulée et répondue.
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13. |
Page 100 |
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) MINACS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: And I want to be sure that when we say GM Canada...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: L'objection est maintenue, for the reasons I've already mentioned under transcript. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes. Me GUY PAQUETTE: "... un de ses répresentants", that this include Minacs and any of its representative. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under the same objection. I'm answering you.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. But this one, I will let Mrs. Justice Poulin decide this objection.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. We maintained this objection... I believe, and I'll go back to the transcript, but at the time we made this objection, I think, because the witness had just told you that dealers do not communicate with GM to make warranty requests, other than through a database.
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Explications des raisons de cette demande débutent à la page 92, vu l’interaction proche entre GM et MINACS. |
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14. |
U-7
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC) MINACS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 370Q-Okay. Let's continue, Mr. Tossan. I want to know who is paying for Minacs' services? A- GM Canada. 371Q-You're sure of that? A- Yes. 372Q-Are you reimbursed by anybody with regard to these services? A- No, I don't...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 373Q-To your knowledge. A- I don't... to my knowledge, no.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 374Q-Okay, as an undertaking I will ask you to verify it and provide us with the answer, okay?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object. I don't see any relevance in it.
Undertaking #7
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Let me give you the background to this question, okay? We understand that any claims that are done under warranty or under the goodwill warranty is paid for by GM USA. That's what Mr. Sévigny has told us. And I want to know if...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That is a... you show me the transcript where Mr. Sévigny told you that.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: With great pleasure. Okay. If you go at page... do you have the transcript?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No. Tell me what page, I'll go get it.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. "Q. Est-ce-que c'est les Etats-Unis qui paient pour ça? R. Le budget est un budget américain, oui."
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-7 : “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection as to relevance, GMCL does not receive any reimbursement for Minacs Services ”
Paquette Gadler: L’engagement découle de la réponse à la question Q.370 qui n’a pas fait l’objet d’une objection. Comme la réponse du témoin est « to my knowledge, no », une demande de vérification est appropriée.
La question est pertinente vu, entre autres, les réponses données aux pages 173 et suivantes de l’interrogatoire de M. Mario Sévigny du 24 janvier 2012.
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15. |
Q. 375
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC) MINACS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 375Q-Mr. Tossan, let's come back to you. I just want to know... my last question is... I asked you an undertaking to verify if GM Canada was reimbursed in any form, way or shape by GM USA or anything... anybody else for the costs it incurs with Minacs to operate the GM Canada Customer Care Centre. Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object. I don't think it's relevant.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
376Q-I want to know... you said this morning that one hundred fifty (150) persons were working within the GM Canada Customer Care Centre; that's correct?
A- No, are working there today. I do not know how many people were working there in the subject period.
377Q-Okay. But today it's one hundred fifty (150) persons?
A- Something in that neighbourhood. I mean, it's not exactly one hundred and fifty (150). It's...
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Mêmes arguments qu’à U-7. |
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16. |
U-8 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) LANGUE FRANÇAISE
382Q-How many of the telephone operators would you say that you have within the centre? A- So for the customer care inbound program, this is for customers calling into the centre, it's something around seventy (70), eighty (80) people. 383Q-Okay. A- Today. 384Q-And how many are fluent in French in this number? A- I don't know exactly how many people are fluent in French. There is a team that is the bilingual team... 385Q-Okay. A- ... so they are managing both English and French customers. 386Q-Okay. I will ask you as an undertaking to verify that information and...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve. I don't see any allegation that Mr. Vermette couldn't speak to somebody in French in the proceedings. |
Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-8 : “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection as to relevance, CCC currently has 21 bilingual persons ”
Paquette Gadler: Aucune objection n’a été formulée à Q.384 et l’engagement U-8 découle directement de la réponse à cette question.
Cette information est pertinente car le territoire des membres du groupe est la province de Québec. Ainsi, savoir si le CCC de GM Canada a prévu des employés bilingue en nombre suffisamment élevé pour répondre aux questions des membres du groupe nous apparaît pertinente.
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17. |
Q. 408 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) MINACS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 405Q-I wanted to know if the call centre was all contacted from Oshawa, or if they had other places where people can answer this kind of incoming calls for customer care services for GM Canada? A- Well, the incoming calls come from the customer. 406Q-Yes. A- So it's dependant on what number the customer has decided to call. 407Q-Okay. Yes, but... okay. A- Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding. 408Q-Yes. Okay. Mr. Sévigny told us that his... - how do you call that, what's the expression in English for this kind of call services... call centre, okay? -... the call centres for his incoming calls from dealers were handled in the States by a group of employees that were ultimately paid by GM Canada. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Again, subject to the truthfulness of that. I'm not going to verify everything you say because we're going to be here for seven (7) days.
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La question est pertinente vu, entre autres, les réponses données aux pages 173 et suivantes de l’interrogatoire de M. Mario Sévigny du 24 janvier 2012.
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18. |
Q. 418
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée |
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients
417Q-Do you know where is the warranty centre located for Canada? A- No, I do not know where the warranty centre is located for Canada. 418Q-Okay. But from what I understand from what Mr. Sévigny told us, he told us that...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, I'm going to object. His transcript speaks for itself.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 419Q-... the centre is located in the States, okay? I'm telling you that, just for...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: But we haven't established that here. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. 420Q-I want to know if you, in your service, the service that you're responsible... you're the manager of, the Customer Care Centre, if you have persons answering calls that are not located or are not doing it from the Oshawa Customer Care Centre? If you have an overflow, for example? A- No. No. 421Q-Everything... A- All... all... 422Q-... all the calls... A- ... all Customer Care Centre ambassadors reside in Oshawa. 423Q-It's... the answer... just to go back, it's in Michigan, and it's question 659 in answer... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: There's a technical centre in Warren, Michigan, yes. I've been there.
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Paquette Gadler : Voir Q.658 et suivant de l’interrogatoire de M. Mario Sévigny du 24 janvier 2012.
La question a été reformulée et répondue à Q. 420 |
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19. |
Q. 451 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC) PLAINTES
451Q-Do you know, in the six (6) first months you were there, how many complaints your centre received?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve.
A- And... 452Q-Answer. A- And I would have to understand what you mean by "complaints".
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 453Q-That either call in, call from dealers, e-mails, letters, any kind of... we will come back. Your point... A- We... 454Q-... is very well founded. I think we will have, for the later part of the interrogatory, to define clearly what is a complaint, but I will say inquiry or... A- Yes, we have some... we have measurements on the kind of volume we're seeing. 455Q-Okay, but do you have an idea how many in the six (6) first months? A- Yes, I have an idea. 456Q-How much? A- We would have something on the order of sixteen to eighteen thousand (16,000 - 18,000) interactions with customers a month. 457Q-A month. Okay. A- Interactions. 458Q-That means, we are talking, for the first six (6) months of this year, about one hundred thousand (100,000) inquiries, if I call it like that, not to call it complaint? A- Yes. And I need to clarify, those are not necessarily unique. So if a customer calls in, and then we talk to that customer again, that's counted as two (2) interactions, but it may be the same issue. And again, we deal with a whole variety of inquiries. It could be anything from questions about the product; an advertising campaign; something they saw on a website; a question they have about, you know, the owner's manual; they would like some help on how to pair a Bluetooth phone. We do just a tremendous gamut of interaction with our customers. And that's why, you know, we have to kind of really... if you want to talk about some specific subset of those interactions, we'd have to... I'd need more detail on exactly what you're looking for. |
Paquette Gadler : Aucun motif exprimé au soutien de l’objection.
Le terme « complaints » a été défini par la suite à Q.452.
Cette question est pertinente pour mieux comprendre le travail du CCC. |
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20. |
Q. 461 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTER (CCC) AUTORITÉ DE M. BRIAN TOSSAN
460Q-It will be very... Now, do I am right when I say that when you announce yourself as being the manager of the Customer Care Centre of GM Canada, you have no authority whatsoever on any person that is located without the Customer Care Centre of GM Canada?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Say that again, because I have no idea what that meant. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Please. Respectfully.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: With pleasure. Okay. Because... 461Q-Do I am right when I said that when you announce or when you... I have your business card here, it says, "Brian Tossan, Manager Customer Care Centre", that as the manager of the Customer Care Centre of GM Canada, you have no authority whatsoever over any person working within the Customer Care Centre of GM Canada?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to that. That's not what he testified. Under reserve. 462Q-Answer the question. A- I'm... when you say "authority", I just want to make sure I understand, what does "authority" mean?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 463Q-Okay, let's say "authority" is that... to impose decision, to change decision, to override decision, to decide the way that a complaint will be dealt with, and have the final say on that. A- Yes, I would say I do not have overriding total decision-making authority on customer case issues.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 464Q-That's not the question. Me GUY PAQUETTE: In fact... yes... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 465Q-The question was, over employees at... A- Oh. 466Q-... that Centre, do you have any authority? And there's different levels of authority. Are you the one who can fire them? Maybe not. A- Okay. 467Q-Are you the one who can do other things? A- Right. 468Q-You know, it depends what authority exercised.
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Paquette Gadler : Cette question est pertinente pour bien situer le rôle de M. Tossan en tant que « Manager Customer Care Centre » et les décisions qu’il peut prendre à ce titre. |
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21. |
U-9 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
PLAINTES GUIDELINES OR POLICIES
494Q-Okay. I would like to know if GM Canada has any written guidelines or policies for Minacs with regard to the handling of the Customer Care Centre?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You mean, like customer satisfaction guidelines or...? Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... what do you mean?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 495Q-For example, the way you address a complaint from a customers or any other... any guidelines or policies that are a part of the requirements for the Centre.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 496Q-Do you understand the question? A- The question... was the question, does GM provide guidelines to Minacs on customer processes and handling?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 497Q-Yes. A- Is that the question? 498Q-Yes. A- Not... we have some input on... 499Q-Some what? A- Some input on some procedures, yes, but primarily the guidelines and processes are developed by Minacs, as part of their obligation to fulfil the services. 500Q-But do you have a copy of these guidelines or policies of Minacs? A- I think if we requested copies we could get access to that, yes.
501Q-Well, we'll request as an undertaking a copy of any guidelines or policy or other documents related to the way that Minacs will handle complaints from GM Canada customers. Just complaints.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: During the period? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: During the period. Me GUY PAQUETTE: During the period. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 502Q-Now... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Subject period? Période visée? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Now... from nineteen ninety-nine (1999) to two thousand eleven (2011). The same period... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's the subject period. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve of any potential contractual issues...
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Paquette Gadler: Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-9 : “Copies of the customer dealer complaint scripts made available to CCC ambassadors when discussing a complaint either with a customer or a dealer are enclosed ”
Objection n’a pas à être débattue dans la mesure où les réponses/informations fournies par GM à l’engagement U-9 sont sans réserve. |
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22. |
Q. 589
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) MINACS
581Q-That's not GM Canada people. My question is, is any... because if you need a report like that, for example... A- Right. 582Q-... that Mr. Sévigny brought to us, okay, am I correct to understand that the only way you can have access to a report from the Minacs system is going through a Minacs representative, that the people at GM Canada cannot have access directly to that report or to that data? A- That is a normal... that'd probably be the normal chain. If a report needs to be generated, we will request Minacs to produce that report. 583Q-Okay.
A- As one method. The second method is, the information exchange, which is not insignificant, that happens automatically and nightly between the Minacs database systems and our EDW in GM is happening. 584Q-But do you know if all the complaints registered with Minacs will be transferred automatically to the GM Canada system? A- No, no, I didn't say anything about complaints. It's customer information. 585Q-Okay. I am talking about complaints. Okay. Let me ask you... A- And again, we're going to... 586Q-Okay. A- ... talk about that... 587Q-Okay. A- ... so... 588Q-I'm a GM Canada executive... A- Okay. 589Q-... okay? I want to... take the Saturn Vue situation, the one that has a problem with the transmission; are you aware of that problem?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to that question.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. I am trying to take an example that everybody knows. I think if the left side of your side doesn't know about it, the right side has a... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's all... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... very good idea.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's all Chinese to me, what you're suggesting, so... he's here to answer factual questions.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Can I change witness? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, you cannot. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Just for that question. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 590Q-Okay. A- I think... I think I'm trying to answer your question. 591Q-Yes. A- Are you saying if GM wants to generate a report, can somebody go in and generate the report... 592Q-Yes. A- ... on the Minacs systems? 593Q-Yes. A- Is that... 594Q-Yes. A- ... your question? 595Q-Yes. A- I would say that... I don't know for certain that there aren't people that know the Minacs systems, but the normal course of business is, if there's a report that needs to be generated... 596Q-You ask them? A- ... that Minacs will generate that report... 597Q-Okay.
598Q-But that was the first part of my question. Now, I want to know... A- Oh, I'm sorry. 599Q-No, no, that's fine. A- Okay. 600Q-That's very clear. If you take all the data, including the data on complaints that are transferred from the Minacs system to the GM Canada system, what I want... for example, if Mr. John sitting here, okay, as legal counsel of the company, wants to know an information about a problem within the company, and how many complaints the company has received, can he have access by himself, okay, to any bank data that will give him this answer, without having to call Minacs and obtaining the information? A- Well, you would have access to a whole bunch of different systems to maybe get that information, but specific to the Minacs data that's being collected, you would probably put a request in to Minacs to do it. 601Q-Okay. A- I guess, quite normally, the action, to be honest, is that the request would probably come to me... 602Q-Yes. A- ... and then I would facilitate that. 603Q-Okay. Now, do you have automatic reporting from the Minacs computer system that goes to GM with regard to...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He's already answered the question. 604Q-But answer it again. A- There are some data exchange protocols from the Minacs systems to GM systems.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 605Q-No, but I'm limiting myself to complaints from customers. A- To complaints from customers. 606Q-Yes. A- So are you... what data exactly... 607Q-Okay. A- ... are you referring to? 608Q-I want to know if executives at GM receive regular complaints reports from Minacs. A- Ah. 609Q-How many complaints we have received over the last month, what are they related to? Is it... A- No. Minacs does not produce complaint reports for regular review. |
Paquette Gadler : La question a été reformulée et répondue à Q.590, suivantes Q.600 et suivantes et Q.608 et suivantes.
Objection n’a pas à être débattue dans la mesure où les réponses données à Q.590, suivantes Q.600 et suivantes et Q.608 et suivantes sont acceptées. |
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23. |
Q. 660 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) RAPPORTS
660Q-Okay. Now, I am going back to the general picture, okay? I want to be sure that I understand correctly. Right now you have a Customer Care Centre that has no formal or even informal reporting system to its client, GM Canada? A- No, that's...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Objection.
A- That's... oh! 661Q- That's not what the witness said. Go ahead under reserve. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 662Q-Okay. A- I've got to say that is not correct. 663Q-Okay. A- There are quite a few reports that are generated. 664Q-Okay. With regard to complaints? A- There... again... but I've asked you this before. I need some help... 665Q-Yes. A- ... defining what you mean by "complaints".
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 666Q-He means a customer calling and reporting a complaint. Is the customer's conversation... you said the customer's conversation is recorded, correct? A- Correct. 667Q-All right. So is there any data...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 668Q-Okay, but...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 669Q-... information regarding a customer call? That's what he's talking about.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Do you know what, Maitre Nahmiash, I think Mr. Tossan's question is fair, okay? We'll take a two- minute break and I will give you a specific definition of what is a "complaint" because, there, we'll need it.
RECESS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 670Q-Okay, Mr. Tossan, let's try to help each other. A- Okay. 671Q-Okay? So that when we talk together we understand each other. At the Customer Care Centre, do you know if you have categories of calls coming in or written communication coming in? A- Yes.
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24. |
Q. 704
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) PLAINTES
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 699Q-Yes. If I called you and I said, "I would like to know... I see some rust on my car," will you consider that as a complaint or as an inquiry? A- Well, we'd probably continue to ask you for more information. 700Q-Okay. A- And I think it would come out pretty quickly whether or not you were calling to complain or you were calling because you're asking about perhaps warranty coverage or something like that. 701Q-Okay, but I just want to be sure that I understand the process. A- Well, I... 702Q-Do you have a category that is called "inquiry"? A- General inquiry, yes. 703Q-And that has nothing to do with complaints?
A- Right. So, for instance, if somebody called in and wanted to know if their vehicle was still under warranty, we could look up for them, based on their VIN, their in-service date, and then determine whether or not it was still in warranty. That's an inquiry. "I would just like to know if my vehicle is still under warranty." 704Q-Okay. But let's say that somebody that is a member of our group, that had a problem with rust, that is calling to see if it's still within warranty, it will go under "general inquiries"?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to the question, it's misleading. It all depends on what the customer discloses to the representative. Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, but... I understand, Maitre Nahmiash, but... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He just told you the discussion is not limited to one sentence that's self-serving and pre-determined by you. It's a discussion. Me GUY PAQUETTE: I understand that, Maitre Nahmiash, but I am just trying... later on, as you can figure out, I will ask Mr. Tossan about how many inquiries and complaints GM Canada has received with regard to our particular problem, okay?
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Paquette Gadler : Savoir comment le CCC catégorise un appel d’un consommateur qui indique seulement vouloir savoir si un problème de rouille est toujours couvert par la garantie est pertinent dans le cadre du présent recours collectif.
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25. |
Q. 720 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) PLAINTES RAPPORTS
719Q-... for the purpose that we understand each other. Now, I want to come back to the report in question. A- M'hm. 720Q-Okay. I want to understand that part very well. Firstly, do you have any kind... do you receive from Minacs or from anybody else within your organization a kind of annual reports of how many complaints and which kind of complaints GM has received in a particular year?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I think he already answered the question, but under reserve. 721Q-Go ahead. A- Well, yes, we... I receive reports monthly, but... 722Q-But he said about complaints. A- Okay. But there's... but not specifically reports talking about complaint trends or something like that... on a formal basis. But as I mentioned before, certainly, there's informal discussions that occur in the Centre depending on what's happening that week, or that day, or whatever the situation might be, where we may want to look into a situation.
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Paquette Gadler : La réponse à cette question permet de préciser si des rapports sont bel et bien fournis par Minacs à GM et si oui à quelle fréquence les rapports de Minacs sont transmis (« monthly reports ») et leurs sujets.
La question a été reformulée et répondue par la suite, entre autres, à Q. 722, 725 et 736. |
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26. |
U-11 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) “TREND/FLAG SYSTEM”
765Q-And over the last six (6) months you had about two (2) trends? A- At least two (2), where something's been trending and they want to bring it to my attention. 766Q-Okay. And no formal report are issued with regard to trends? A- A formal report per se? It would be an e-mail, usually would be the way they would communicate that. So, for instance, we just had one last week. I'll give you an example. The customers were trying to use our website, and there is a tool on the website called "Build and Price" your vehicle. You may have tried this yourself if you want to... if you're interested in a model... 767Q-Yes. A- ... you will pick the model, you pick your options, and then it kind of gives you an estimate on the price. It's a tool to help people understand how much they may have to pay for that vehicle. That Build and Price function was not working... 768Q-Okay. A- ... on the website. It was failing. 769Q-And that, you receive a lot of calls? A- Right. So once that fails, people would call in and let the ambassadors know about the situation, they'd say, "Look, I just tried this. I can't get it to work." And what we were seeing is, we were seeing an unusually high number of those complaints come in. And we said, "This is happening more frequently than normal," that would get raised. We would review that. I'd work with the internet team and say, "Hey, I think we have a situation here," and then they would go and correct it. 770Q-Okay. Coming back to the general question. You say that you have a monthly report on the number of complaints that have been received? A- Yes. 771Q-But that doesn't tell you what are the issues involved in these complaints? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm. A- That report does not get to that detail, no. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 772Q-Okay. A- It's just the total number of complaints received by that month, and then there's a comparison year over year. So if we're talking about June of two thousand twelve (2012), then we would do a comparison between June two thousand twelve (2012) and June two thousand eleven (2011) to see if the volume of complaints is... if there is a percentage difference. 773Q-Okay. And after that, you have this informal flag system with regard to trends, to use your expression? A- Yes, and there are some more formal processes on very specific complaint situations. So as... 774Q-Like what? A- ... as an example, if a customer were to call in and have a complaint that was legal in nature, you know, for instance, if there is a fire in the vehicle and the customer's complaining that the fire maybe caused some personal injury and they want to sue GM and... something like that, then that gets flagged formally in the system, and then we would engage legal. 775Q-Okay. A- So that is an example of where we do have a formal system to flag, you know, a certain type of call. 776Q-You have received, from what Maitre Nahmiash is telling us, about twelve hundred (1,200) complaints with regard... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Let's don't mention a number because I specifically... I didn't count them. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: But from memory I think it's about that, but subject to that caveat, let's... Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. 777Q-Let's say hundreds of complaints with regard to the subject vehicles here. A- Of cases? 778Q-Yes. You have changed three thousand seven hundred (3,700) roofs on these fifteen thousand (15,000) vehicles.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He hasn't personally changed them.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, I know that. I'm referring to Mr. Tossan as a representative of GM Canada.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Right. And we also sold a hundred and two thousand (102,000) subject vehicles in the province of Quebec. Yes, you were saying?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 779Q-I want to know how the flag system has worked in this particular case. There wasn't a flag or trend... A- No. 780Q-A report issued?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 781Q-Only if you know. A- I am not aware of any flags...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 782Q-Or trend? A- ... or trends for these particular vehicles. 783Q-Okay. As an undertaking I will ask you to verify that and provide us with any kind of report or trend report or flag report or flag e-mails or documents that were issued with regard to that by the customer service - I will take the general definition - which includes the Customer Care Centre.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve of the objection that I think you have at least six (6) or seven (7) undertaking requests which would have already encompassed such a document or such a flag or such a report...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: But that's different...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... and you've already received the answer to it.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: That's different than the complaints as such.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's not different... well, when you make something...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: What...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... so general and so wide...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, but I want the flag system, okay? I want the trend report.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: What is a "flag"? Please define for me what we should be looking for?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: The trend. What Mr. Tossan has described as a trend that will generate an action within the organization.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, he's told you, that for the subject vehicles, the subject of this, he's not aware of any such report. Me GUY PAQUETTE: M'hm. That's why I'm asking... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. So what do you want us to verify? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, that's correct. 784Q-Coming back to the general picture... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-11: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection based on the redundancy of the question, the Customer Care Center (CCC) does not have a flag system in place ”
Paquette Gadler: Voir les trois (3) categories de rapports décrit à Q.785. La question/l’engagement concernant les « flag » et/ou un « trend » est pertinente et loin d’être redondante. |
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27. |
Q. 790 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients
790Q-Okay. Can you tell me how the management of GM Canada can assess which are the biggest problems or complaints within the organization on a year-to-year basis without having no regular or formal report on the type of complaints that the company receives?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object to the formulation of the question because it's misleading and denatures the answers of the witness. The witness has described many ways in which those processes could be activated outside of the Customer Care Centre. 791Q-And under that reserve, go ahead and answer. A- I forgot the question now that you say that.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 792Q-Okay. Very easy. A- How can... how can... 793Q-Okay. A- Yes? 794Q-I will not take my example of being the president of GM Canada, but let's say that somebody in his position would like to know how many complaints the company has received in a... A- M'hm. 795Q-... specific year. A- M'hm. 796Q-How does... he doesn't receive anything telling him what is the... A- The warranty team, I think, is really a big source for the company - I'm not sure... I think I've said this a number of times, but I'll say it again - the warranty team is a big source of information to understand what's happening in terms of issues with the vehicle and repairs that need to be conducted on those vehicles.
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Paquette Gadler : Cette série de questions/engagements (Q.790, Q.797 et U-12) est importante pour bien comprendre la façon dont l’information est transmise du CCC à GM, dont au « warranty team » de GM. |
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28. |
Q. 797
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou CLIENts
797Q-Except that the warranty team, if I am not incorrect, is just informed of the things that have been put on the warranty or refused by the warranty, but it has no knowledge of the complaints that have been received?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I object. You're confusing what the warranty knows with what's entered into a database. Those are two different things. You've also heard testimony from the witness that there are DSMs. They have more knowledge than data which is simply input in a database.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Do you want to change chair with Mr... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, no, I just want you to be fair to the witness. Don't put words in his mouth that he hasn't said. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Let me go back, okay? 798Q-The warranty people are dealing with warranties issues; that's correct? A- The warranty team are dealing with warranty? 799Q-Yes. A- Yes. 800Q-Okay. Either it's covered, uncovered, it goes under normal warranty, it goes under goodwill warranty; is that correct? A- Yes. 801Q-Okay. But they have no knowledge of the complaints? A- The complaints in terms of? 802Q-That your Centre receives. A- Oh, that I received in the Customer Care Centre? 803Q-Yes. A- Again, no, no, I didn't say they'd have no knowledge. If there is something to be looked at, then a report can be pulled. Similar to how this report was pulled here for purposes of this... 804Q-Interrogatory? A- Right. 805Q-Okay, but let me ask you one question. Are you aware of any report that been issued to the warranty team with regard to the specific problem covered by this class action with regard to the number of complaints received? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: When? A- I think... Me GUY PAQUETTE: 806Q-During the period. A- I am not aware, no, during that period. I know that we just did one to generate these books. 807Q-Yes, because we asked for it. A- Correct. 808Q-But what I really want to know is, was the warranty team personnel made aware of the number of complaints that your centre, the Customer Care Centre received with regard to these specific problems? A- I'm not aware... 809Q-And you're not aware of... A- ... of that period of time. 810Q-... any report that may have been issued by your centre or by the Minacs people to the warranty team people with regard to same? A- Yes, I don't... I'm not aware of any reports that were issued.
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Paquette Gadler : Cette série de questions/engagements (Q.790, Q.797 et U-12) est importante pour bien comprendre la façon dont l’information est transmise du CCC au warranty team de GM. |
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29. |
U-12 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou CLIENTS
[812]Q-I want you to verify if any formal or informal report has been issued by the Customer Care Centre or the Minacs personnel to the warranty team personnel with regard to the problems that are covered by our class action in this file during the subject period that is included in our class action.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve, because I think your undertakings already encompass that request...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 813Q-And if....
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... by their generality and the definitions which you have imported.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 814Q-And if they are such report or reports, to provide us with a copy of same.
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Paquette Gadler: Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-12: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection based on the redundancy of the question, the Customer Care Center or Minacs personnel has not issued any formal or informal report to the warranty team personnel for the problems covered by the class action ”
Cette série de questions/engagements (Q.790, Q.797 et U-12) est importante pour bien comprendre la façon dont l’information est transmise du CCC au warranty team de GM. |
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30. |
Q. 842-843 (under reserve)
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) PLAINTES (nombre)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 839Q-General questions, Mr. Tossan, on the complaints. I will call it our problem, okay, for the sake of this interrogatory, when I will ask you the questions, the next line of questions. Can you tell us how many complaints GM Canada or Minacs has received with regard to our problem, the problem covered by our...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You have all of them, and you're free to count them. Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, but general question. I mean, he's the person in charge. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm not going to have him count them for you when you could do it yourself. We're not a... a data service for Plaintiffs' counsel in this case. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
840Q-Do you know how many complaints the...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I mean... and I don't want it to be... If he could go to the computer and say in two seconds how many did we generate, fine, but if we have to go now, having extracted them all from the system, count them ourselves, we won't do that.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: That's fair. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You're capable of doing it. Me GUY PAQUETTE: That's fair. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 841Q-Can you go to the system and make some inquiries? I have a list of inquiries that I would like you to make to the Minacs system with regard to our problem.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 842Q-Okay. I would like to know how many complaints GM Canada, including Minacs, but I will refer to GM Canada... A- M'hm. 843Q-... for the rest, has received.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve.
|
Paquette Gadler: Le nombre de plaintes reçues par GM concernant les problèmes visés, leurs sujets et la façon dont elles ont été traitées est important. Dans la mesure où cette information peut être obtenue par le système informatique de GM, nous désirons l’obtenir. |
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31. |
Q. 844
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) plaintes
844Q-What was the issue raised in these complaints, by the type.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: We won't do that. Objection. We are not an analytic service at your disposal. You have the reports. You can do all the analyses you want.
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Paquette Gadler: Le nombre de plaintes reçues par GM concernant les problèmes visés, leurs sujets et la façon dont elles ont été traitées est important. Dans la mesure où cette information peut être obtenue par le système informatique de GM, nous désirons l’obtenir. |
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32. |
Q.848
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
customer care centre (ccc) PLAINTES Statistiques (suivi, acceptées/refusées, sous garani ou non etc.)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 846Q-I would like to know what has been the normal process of treatments of these complaints, how those complaints have been treated.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Please be clearer. I don't understand what you mean.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 847Q-When you received any one of these... let's say... let's take the number of twelve hundred (1,200) as an example, a number that Maitre Nahmiash mentioned, even if it's not exactly the number. A- M'hm. 848Q-When you receive one (1) of these twelve hundred (1,200) complaints, how have they been processed within your organization? What happened with them, okay? How many complaints have been accepted? How many complaints have been rejected? In the complaints that have been accepted, how many were still under your contractual warranty, how many were out of your contractual warranty. How many have been accepted under your goodwill warranty. How many have been accepted under the special policy, any special policy that may exist with regard to our problem, as we have seen in the case of Mr. Jonathan St-Jean. I want to know how many complaints you received, GM Canada received from fleet operators; how many were accepted, how many were rejected.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Are you done? Because I'm just going to make my objection once, once you're finished, okay?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Well, you can start with that. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Because I'll object to all of those requests... Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... for the simple reason that what you would like to do is to have us analyze data which you have in your possession, because it's simpler for you not to do so at your expense and on your time, and that's unacceptable.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: But what I...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You have all of the information in these files to assess them one-by-one and determine if they were denied; if they were accepted; what language was used; was that language this; what transpired. And our only obligation is to provide it to you. Now, if we can send these reports to you on in electronic format that permits you to make your job easier, if it's possible, we'll look at it, if there's something from Sonoma that inspires us to do, but otherwise, you have all the data that enables you to do all your analyses.
|
Paquette Gadler: Le nombre de plaintes reçues par GM concernant les problèmes visés, leurs sujets et la façon dont elles ont été traitées est important. Dans la mesure où cette information peut être obtenue par le système informatique de GM, nous désirons l’obtenir. |
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33. |
U-14
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) PLAINTES (Système informatique)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 849Q-The other thing I will ask you is to make inquiries - and that's really my demand for an undertaking - to make inquiries in your computer system or Minacs' computer system to see if you can obtain and provide us with the answer to these questions. For example, if you go on your computer system and they will tell you how many complaints you received; how many were related to what; how many were accepted; how many were rejected; all the questions that I just asked you and...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 850Q-Could you do that? A- I am pretty sure that those kind of questions won't be a push button away. It will require us to review the data, run analytics on it, trying to generate the answer. 851Q- All the things you could do. Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, because we don't have the program. Without the program... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: There's... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... you cannot do that.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object. I'm going to make the verification, but I don't think that the program enables us to save any time from reviewing case-by-case what the answers are to these questions.
|
Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-14: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection, the Customer Care Centre is a call centre. The CCC ambassadors do not separate incoming calls generated by fleet owners from general customers. Its purpose is to try and assist any customer with the review of their claim. The CCC data base is designed to summarize the telephone conversations or other customer communication channels such as emails and not to record the number of claims accepted or denied. As decisions are generally made at the dealer level, the customer complaint file may not necessarily reflect the activity in all cases. However, the CCC data base, can sort activity cases by component codes and by vehicle model as provided in E-83. GMCL’s warranty records do not separate warranty from goodwill claims. Again, there is no special policy, but rather only dealer bulletins with respect to the subject issues. The warranty booklet is the guideline for customer requests and repairs” Paquette Gadler: Le nombre de plaintes reçues par GM concernant les problèmes visés, leurs sujets et la façon dont elles ont été traitées est important. Dans la mesure où cette information peut être obtenue par le système informatique de GM, nous désirons l’obtenir.
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34. |
U-15
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
FLOTTES DOCUMENTS
853Q-Okay. Sorry, I will start by E-68. Mr. Tossan, I will ask you, not today but when you will review the documentation that has been provided to us, to look at the undertakings E-62 to E-71, which regard the question of the fleet operators, okay, just to make sure that you... because based on what you're telling us and what GM Canada is telling us, for example, at Undertaking E-64, you didn't receive any complaint from any fleet operator whatsoever with regard to the subject vehicles during the period.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So is there a question here? I don't understand.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, it's coming. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: M'hm. Me GUY PAQUETTE: It's coming. The question is coming.
854Q-I would like to know, with regard to Undertaking E-68, which are and what is the contents of the Courtoisie Agreement or other agreement which may have been concluded between a representative of GM and fleet operators with regard to the...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I can answer that one immediately. There's no way to find out. Absolutely no way to find out.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: That means, you're telling me that there are nobody within GM who can...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll double-check, but I asked myself. I asked the same question before the undertaking was released, and I do not believe there is any way to verify within the warranty repair documentations which ones were done on a goodwill basis or... for fleets.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: But here it's not even goodwill. It's something completely different. It says...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, you said...
(…)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: What I am asking Mr. Tossan is to check with his fleet people at GM Canada, and to provide us with the name and the agreement either/or the terms of the agreement that have been made between GM Canada and fleet operators in Quebec.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Same objection. We have already answered to you that it's not possible. And if we have it... I'm telling you now, and we'll reiterate it in the answer, since, apparently, you won't take my word for it.
|
Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-15: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection based on the redundancy of the question, GMCL reiterates that it has no record of any written or verbal agreement with fleet operators regarding perforation repairs that could have been performed on vehicles on a courtesy basis from time to time by one of its service representatives in view of customer satisfaction. Should repairs have been granted, the Exhibit MS-3 report would include these repairs in the total amount of claims ”
La réponse fournie à l’engagement E-68: « GM Canada n’a eu aucune poursuite judiciaire provenant de parcs-automobiles (fleet) et de ce fait n’a conclu aucune entente de règlement judiciaire avec des parcs-automobiles. Des ententes de courtoisie ou autres auraient pu être conclues entre des représentants GM de parcs-automobiles et des opérateurs de parcs-automobiles (fleet) à titre de satisfaction à la clientèle sans pour autant compléter un document écrit. GM Canada n’a d’ailleurs aucun document d’entente avec quelque opérateur de parcs-automobile que ce soit pour les problèmes visés pendant la période visée. De telles ententes verbales de courtoisie le cas échéant auraient été comptabilisées dans le tableau MS-3 ». (Nos soulignés)
Paquette Gadler : Comme la réponse donnée à E-68 laisse croire que des ententes écrites pourraient exister, l’engagement demandé à U-15 est tout à fait pertinent et aucunement redondant. |
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35. |
U-16
B. Tossan 12-07-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
DÉPÔT DU RECOURS COLLECTIF Plaintes
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 861Q-The other undertaking I want to ask you is, how many complaints has GM Canada received before November twelve (12), two thousand four (2004), and how many complaints have been received after November twelve (12), two thousand four (2004), and how many complaints have been accepted that are subsequent to November twelve (12), two thousand four (2004), and how many have been rejected after...
Undertaking #16
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Same objection as before. You have all the information to permit you to obtain those answers simply by reviewing the data and the reports that have been provided to you. As we've noted with the one document that you have looked at, each such report dates the date of the complaint, when the file was opened and the nature of the complaint according to various codes. So all of that information is available to you.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-16: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection based on the redundancy of the question, the Customer Care Centre data base is not designed to record the number of claims accepted or rejected. It simply keeps on record the conversations with a customer regarding the review of their claim. The service claims processed before and after November 12, 2004 are already listed in Undertaking 12A & B (MS). The GMCL warranty data base does not separate warranty and goodwill claims. The CCC case activities received from customers before November 12, 2004 total 454 and received after November 12, 2004 total 837. ”
Paquette Gadler: Nous désirons savoir si le dépôt du recours collectif a eu une influence sur les plaintes chez GM. Cette demande est pertinente. Dans la mesure où le système informatique permet d’avoir cette information, nous désirons l’obtenir.
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36. |
Q. 862
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
DÉPÔT DU RECOURS COLLECTIF Plaintes « Goodwill »
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 862Q-Now, Mr. Tossan, if a request has been made for a goodwill warranty after November twelve (12), two thousand four (2004), without the customer calling your Customer Care Centre, will you have any way to access this information?
A- So...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object because the question is nonsensical, is not sufficiently pronounced. If the complaint is not made to him, who is it made to? |
Paquette Gadler: Nous désirons savoir si le dépôt du recours collectif a eu une influence sur les plaintes chez GM. Cette demande est pertinente. Dans la mesure où le système informatique permet d’avoir cette information, nous désirons l’obtenir. |
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37. |
Q. 863
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
DÉPÔT DU RECOURS COLLECTIF Plaintes « Goodwill »
863Q-What I would like to know is, how many warranty claims have been accepted after November twelve (12), two thousand four (2004), that were outside the contractual warranty provision?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's not... you don't have the proper witness before you. You didn't ask the question to Mr. Mario Sévigny. And if, Mr. Mario Sévigny, you had asked him the question, I would have objected to it also. You have the warranty records at E-12, which is all the warranty records and the information that is still available in the system regarding the warranty repairs that was made. It's a brick like this of... and I believe it has the amount of each repair as well, and the date of the repair, and you can do all that analysis yourself.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. But I maintain my request for an undertaking.
Undertaking #16
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Sure. And I maintain my objection.
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Paquette Gadler: Nous désirons savoir si le dépôt du recours collectif a eu une influence sur les plaintes chez GM. Cette demande est pertinente. Dans la mesure où le système informatique permet d’avoir cette information, nous désirons l’obtenir.
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38. |
Q. 864
B. Tossan 12-07-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée |
CHIFFRES AU CANADA PLAINTES
864Q-Okay. The other thing I would like to know, Mr. Tossan, is, how many complaints you, GM Canada has received, including Minacs, with regard to similar problems as those covered by our class action for the rest of Canada during the pertinent period?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You obviously know I'm objecting to that because this class action concerns only the province of Quebec.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. We will let Mrs. Justice Poulin decide that.
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Paquette Gadler : Comme les modèles de GM ne sont pas différents d’une province à l’autre, cette information provenant de la défenderesse GM Canada est pertinente au présent recours collectif. |
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39. |
U-17 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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E-12 A et B (RAPPORTS DE RÉPARATIONS) CODES ET NUMÉROS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. To be clear, what I will ask Mr. Tossan as an undertaking, it's to provide us with a list of what the labour number means or the part numbers that are referred to in Exhibit E-12A and B, and if it's already contained in Exhibit E-31 or E-33, just to tell us that it's there. If not, to provide us with those that were missing.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, E-33 already provides you with an explanation of what the code numbers are, the labour codes are, so we don't need to re-do that and we're not going to re-do that. There's only two (2) that are written by hand, and we already explained during Mr. Sevigny's deposition that these two (2) codes that are written by hand on the third page of E-33, if you go to the third page...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... all right, you see those were the bulletin codes. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The codes that were, I believe, made for the bulletin. I think Mr. Sevigny, subject to being corrected, I think that's what he told you, okay? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: From memory. So you already have a definition of the codes. What I understand you're asking for now is you want an identification of the part numbers that are listed in E-12.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: That's correct.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay. To the extent that it's available and subject to my earlier objection, under reserve, that he's not the proper witness to ask these undertakings from, we'll see if we can get you a quick answer to avoid bringing back Mr. Sevigny.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-17: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection as to relevance, a list of all parts numbers outlined in E12-A & B is enclosed ”
Paquette Gadler : Lors de l’interrogatoire, la seule objection soulevée était que le témoin n’était pas approprié, alors que cette objection ne se retrouve plus dans la réponse donnée à U-17. Cette information est nécessaire pour comprendre les pièces E-12A et B puisque des codes sont utilisés à ces pièces.
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40. |
U-18 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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E-12 A et B (RAPPORTS DE RÉPARATIONS) CODES ET NUMÉROS
56Q- I will also ask you an undertaking for identification of the DLR numbers that are mentioned in Exhibit E-12A and E-12B.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The dealer numbers?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. A- You mean you want the name of the dealer associated with the dealer code? 57Q- Yes. Because in E-83 we have it all over the place, each and every exhibit, we want to be able to do the reconciliation.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Just under the same comment I made about the appropriateness of the witness, but that's it. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Just the name of the dealer? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes. Me GUY PAQUETTE: With his address, his location. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If we have a list with just the name, that's what you'll get, though, okay?
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-18: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection as to relevance, a list of all GM dealers and dealer codes in the province of Quebec including terminated dealers is enclosed ”
Paquette Gadler : Lors de l’interrogatoire, la seule objection soulevée était que le témoin n’était pas approprié, alors que cette objection ne se retrouve plus dans la réponse donnée à U-18. Cette information est nécessaire pour comprendre les pièces E-12A et B puisque des codes sont utilisés à ces pièces.
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41. |
U-19
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
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E-12 A et B (Rapport de réparations) CODES ET NUMÉROS (Fleet or non-fleet?)
60Q- Now, can you tell me, in the "VIN" column, if you are able from the VIN number to make a identification between which are fleet cars or individual or non-fleet cars? A- No, I don't...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know? A- Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know. I don't believe in the VIN coding identifiers that there is a differentiation between a fleet versus non-fleet.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 61Q- Okay. Do you know if... and I will ask you as an undertaking if you don't know, if this report, E-12, can tell you which cars are fleet cars and which ones are not fleet cars? A- So the question was, do I know if this report can tell you?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, because... yeah, do you know if there's anything in this report that enables you to identify what is fleet versus non-fleet? A- No, I do not. I do not see anything that would allow you to do that differentiation. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 62Q- My question was, do you know if the program was generated, the report E-12, can give you this information? A- No, I don't know that. 63Q- Okay. As an undertaking, I will ask you to verify and provide us with the answer.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-19: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection based on the redundancy of the question, GMCL reiterates that it does not separate any of its warranty information for fleet and non fleet customers. It has no records of warranty costs for fleet customers versus regular customers. All warranty claims are processed in the same fashion for both cases. ” |
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42. |
Q. 70
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
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E-12 (Rapport de réparations) POWER POINT (warranty information)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 65Q- Mr. Tossan, before we look at E-83, I just want to go back to E-12 for a second. A- Okay. 66Q- Since you are with GM, no matter what capacity, but most particularly since you're in charge of the Customer Care Centre, have you ever seen a report like the E-12 report? A- Have I ever seen a report like E-12? 67Q- Yes. Not this content... A- Right. 68Q- ... but this form. Have you ever had placed in front or having to look at a warranty... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: List of repairs. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. A- Yeah, quite honestly, I haven't really had to do very much of that. I do see warranty information, but it wouldn't be in a report like this. 69Q- Okay. A- Usually we put it in a Power Point presentation format with some summaries, so we understand what the situation might be. Wouldn't be the raw... what I'll consider to almost be a, you know, raw data report with listing of information. 70Q- Okay. These Power Point reports, you use it in which context?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Let me ask the question and you...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object because I know where you're going with this, and you're going nowhere as far as I'm concerned, okay?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I just want to remind you...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You have a list that's generated from the computer you want to do analysis, you do your own analysis.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, but let me just finish, then after that you can say whatever you want, Maître Nahmiash, it will be my pleasure to listen to you. We'll go back later on to a list of objections or documents that were requested as undertakings at E-74, 75, 76, E-78, E-80, E-81, it's all documents that are related to the present matter that objections are made on.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 71Q- Now you refer to a Power Point report that can be made with regard to warranty, and I want to know in which circumstances these Power Point reports with regard to warranty are prepared or presented, by whom, and I want to know if such a report has been prepared, Power Point report has been prepared with regard to the present situation, the present problems.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The last question, if you know, answer immediately. A- I have not seen any Power Point presentations prepared with regards to the present situation or subject vehicles.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 72Q- Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And to your earlier question, I'm going to address the objection right now, because I suspect that what the witness was saying is that you can sometimes make a Power Point on any document on warranty information. Like, you can make a Power Point on any information that's available at the company, that's all he was suggesting. Whereas what you're looking for is a supposedly standard plate Power Point for warranty information, which doesn't exist.
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Paquette Gadler: La question Q.70 découle de la réponse du témoin à la question Q.69 faisant référence à des rapport Power Point.
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43. |
Q. 73 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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Échange d’information avec l’équipe des garantiEs
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 73Q- Now, I'm coming back to E-12, just before we look at E-83. I want to know if, in your capacity as Manager of the Customer Care Service and giving the Customer Care service to the customer, what's the inter-relationship between your service and the warranty service when, for example, a situation like this one, like the one that we have in front of us in this case, happened?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That question has been asked and answered, I think, forty-six (46) times last time, but under reserve I'll let it go one (1) more time. A- So your question is, what is the relationship between the Care Centre and the Warranty Centre?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 74Q- Yes. A- The part that I just want to... I don't know if you changed, you said with regards to this specific situation? Is that your question? 75Q- Yes. A- Which situation? 76Q- The problem that the subject vehicle has for which the class action has been authorized.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, you're presupposing that there a relationship between the two (2) services made specifically to deal with the subject vehicles and the subject issues, and there has not. A- We do not have any formal relationship or, you know, inter... we don't have any interplay right now dealing specifically with this situation. It's not on the agenda.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 77Q- Okay. What you're telling me, if I understand you correctly, is that with regard to our specific situation, you don't know of any interaction, if I can use this word, that has occurred between your service in the past, even before you were there, but that you are aware of, and the warranty service. A- That's correct.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: To deal specifically with this issue. A- Correct.
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Paquette Gadler: La question est pertinente. Elle a également été reformulée et répondue à la question Q.77 sans aucune objection. |
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44. |
U-21 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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E-12 A et B (Rapport de réparations) (programme informatique)
113Q-Okay, perfect. Now, I'm going back to BT-4, okay? Because not only we are asking you for the... can I call it the digital information or the electronic...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Not only are you asking for electronic information, if available, yeah.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 114Q-For E-83, but we're also asking you to have access to the program from which E-12 has been issued, so that we... and let me tell you very clearly why we need it. Because, if I take, for example, E-12, and I take the first car, which is the nineteen ninety-seven (1997) Chevy Venture with its VIN number, if I have the program, if our expert has the program, it will be able to see how many times this car has come back, okay? And we will want to classify it. For example, we may want to classify it by VIN number. That means this first car can have maybe six (6) entries in E-12. You have the program that has generated this. Us, without having this program, we cannot do it. And right now, and, Maître Nahmiash, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but in this kind of case, for example, in the Cartel cases, we have provided the other side with all the programs that the expert report, our expert report has been prepared from a digital point of view, so that their expert can work with the same information and...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: But now you're asking me a question on E-12, which is Mario Sevigny's undertaking, and my understanding was this was a printout of a database, which is the only information left available on the warranty file, except for the warranty file reports that you have as well in E-83, that gives you a listing of all the spend and identifies the part numbers, the dealers, blah, blah, blah, for the warranty spend for the subject vehicles and the subject issue or repair. Okay? That's what we... whether or not now you can take this apart electronically at the root of it, I have no idea. You've never asked that before today.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay, but I'm asking you that as a...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, I think he's the wrong person to ask it to. Under reserve of that objection, we'll verify in order to try to save... but I'm only verifying, understanding that this is a way of avoiding bringing back Mr. Sevigny.
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Paquette Gadler: Dans la mesure où le système informatique permet d’avoir cette information, nous désirons l’obtenir. La seule objection soulevée lors de l’interrogatoire de M. Tossan est qu’il n’est pas le bon témoin et que M. Sévigny serait le bon témoin. Comme l’interrogatoire de M. Sévigny a été suspendu, nous pourrions demander à M. Sévigny de se déplacer à nouveau pour nous permettre d’utiliser cet engagement sans la réserve émise par les procureurs de GM.
Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-21: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection, a CD of the raw data included in Mario Sévigny’s undertaking reply E-12 A & B is enclosed. ” |
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45. |
U-22
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée |
E-12 (Rapport de réparations) CODES ET NUMÉROS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Because, for example, if I have this information on E-12, okay, I can see how much has been spent on the car, okay, what has been done on the car, because we have a lot of entries and we are going for twelve million dollars ($12,000,000.00) of repairs, and we are going for nine thousand nine hundred seventy-eight (9,978) cases over ten (10) years, or eight (8) years, and it will be...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: For a hundred and two thousand nine hundred (102,900) vehicles, yes.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. But it may help yourself also if it's, instead of being nine thousand nine hundred seventy-eight (9,978) different cars, the same cars came in three (3) times, it can reduce the volume of cars involved. But we know that three thousand five hundred (3,500)...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If there's a way to regroup all the VIN numbers... Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... electronic... that's what you want us to verify? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Within the existing database? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll verify that.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-22: “a list of E12 A & B by vehicle identification number is also enclosed.”
Paquette Gadler: Aucune objection n’est réitérée. Nous comprenons que cet engagement nous a été fourni sans réserve. |
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46. |
Q.199
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée |
E-83 DÉFINITIONS DE TERMES
198Q-Okay. "Buy Back"? A- "Buy Back" is a field indicating whether or not the case is going into a situation where we would be buying back the vehicle. 199Q-Which are the circumstances where you will be buying back a vehicle? A- That's case by case. 200Q-But give me some particular examples. A- Particular examples of when we would buy back vehicles?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to that. I don't think it's relevant. There's no allegation of buy back in this case. |
Paquette Gadler: Cette information est nécessaire pour comprendre E-83 et les codes utilisés. Il est pertinent de savoir dans quelles circonstances GM aurait racheté un véhicule « Buy Back », surtout si cela s’est déjà produit pour un véhicule visé par le présent recours collectif. |
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47. |
Question No. 203
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée □ Retirée
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E-83 DÉFINITIONS DE TERMES
A- "CSN" is a consumer serial number. Basically, it's an identifier against a particular customer.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 202Q-Tell me more, because I'm not sure that I understand. A- So if you're a customer of General Motors, by name, let's say whatever it is, customer... Mr. Brown, or whoever it might be, will be assigned also in our databases a customer... a serial number, a consumer serial number as a record identifier, just an identifier.
203Q-Okay. That means, if I understand you correctly, that when you were telling me that this report and the voice recording was containing all the information that you had on particular customers, that's not totally exact, because if you have reports on certain customers with regard to number of complaints and things like that. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: What? A- I totally don't understand what you just said. 204Q-I don't understand what you say and I'm going to object to it because it's a characterization that I didn't see any contradiction anywhere.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I will make it clearer. 205Q-For example, Air Canada... I just want to give you a particular example. A- Okay. 206Q-I understand that if Guy Paquette calls every three (3) weeks to complain about the service on the plane, the fact the plane was late, that it will become what we call in law "clairilant" customer. That means somebody that is...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's not an English word, but... Me GUY PAQUETTE: What is it? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: An abusive caller, let's just say, one that abuses the privilege of complaining, a chronic complainer.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 207Q-Is that what we're referring to here? A- No, not at all. I don't think so anyway. I'm trying to follow your example. The consumer serial number... I'll give you a practical example back, I think... 208Q-Okay. That's what I... A- ... maybe that will help. So, for instance, General Motors has a privacy policy that we take very seriously, privacy, obviously some... there's even a legal component to that. So we have a privacy policy at GM, we want to respect customers' privacy. So let's say a customer has decided to opt out of marketing material. As you know, that is an option in different types of correspondence, maybe you don't want to be receiving offers and that sort of thing. The customer decides to flag that as something that they're not interested in. Well, how do we capture that? How do we assign that that...and recognize within our system that that customer does not want to receive marketing materials, you know, from a privacy perspective? What we can do is, based on the CSN, consumer serial number, apply that element to that record so that it can be flagged whenever we decide to create marketing campaigns. 209Q-Okay, perfect. A- That's what that is.
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Paquette Gadler: Question répondue plus loin à Q. 208. Dans la mesure où la réponse à Q. 208 est acceptée, l’objection à Q.203 n’a pas à être tranchée. Cette question est pertinente pour comprendre ce que GM conserve comme information concernant chacun de ses consommateurs. |
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48. |
U-29 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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FLOTTES DOCUMENTS (E-62 à E-71)
228Q-Mr. Tossan, just on this particular subject, because I don't want to forget it, can you just take the list of undertakings that your counsel prepared; Maître Nahmiash?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm not going to permit you to amend a list of undertaking requests to one witness with a request to another witness. It doesn't make any sense. And it's going to be incomprehensible. If you want to make a new undertaking request, we'll make a new undertaking request. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, I will make one, but I just want to refer Mr. Tossan to the document, it will be much... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I don't want to refer to the document because then we're mixing apples with oranges.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 229Q-As an undertaking, Mr. Tossan, I will ask you to verify and let us know that when the undertakings E- 62 to E-71 have been answered or fulfilled, was the Fleet Command Centre, or any part of it, consulted with regard to the answers that have been given to these undertakings, E-62 to E-71 of Mr. Sevigny's undertakings.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve of my objection. That's not the appropriate witness to submit that question to.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-29: “Under reserve of the GMCL’S objection, the Fleet Service Department was consulted in order to respond to the undertaking requests E-62 to E-71 submitted to Mario Sévigny ”
Paquette Gadler : Cette question est pertinente. La seule objection concerne le choix du témoin. Comme l’interrogatoire de M. Mario Sévigny a été suspendu, nous pourrions demander à M. Sévigny de se présenter à nouveau pour répondre à cet engagement dans l’éventualité où l’objection ou la réserve était maintenue.
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49. |
Q. 383 et U-35 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
GARANTIE/LIAISON DU CONSOMMATEUR Application du Goodwill (Document)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 380Q-Are you, Mr. Tossan, familiar with these documents, the ones that are in E-7? A- M'hm. 381Q-Okay. I'm bringing you to the first one, the nineteen ninety-eight (1998) "Warranty Repair Special Policy Adjustment Policies on Specific Vehicle Components and Programs".
(…)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, page 10. 383Q-I understand that these documents, one was issued, or a new version was issued for any and every year going from nineteen ninety-nine (1999) to two thousand and four (2004).
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to that question. He's not the appropriate witness who compiled these undertakings for you.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I just asked him if he was familiar... A- Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question, sorry. 384Q-No, two (2) minutes ago I asked you if you were familiar...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He may be familiar because he's... A- Familiar. 385Q-... over the years. That doesn't mean he's the one who prepared the undertaking and responded to the request.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: That's not what I'm saying. If he's familiar with it, I'm just asking him if I'm right, when I look at them, to think that it's the same document, maybe with some changes, but that was prepared for the years nineteen ninety-nine (1999) to two thousand and four (2004).
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I don't understand your question. I think I'm going to have to... you're going to have to reformulate.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay, I will reformulate. 386Q-These documents that are at undertaking E-7 of Mr. Sevigny, Mr. Tossan... A- M'hm. 387Q-... is it correct if I think that they are the same documents reproduced seven (7) times, that goes from nineteen ninety-eight (1998) to two thousand and four (2004)?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: How would you know what's been in the file? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Because it's there... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Is he the witness? No, well, he's not going to verify another witness' undertakings, it makes no sense. Me GUY PAQUETTE: We'll have Mr. Sevigny... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's what it says. In any event, you're asking him to confirm what the undertaking says.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 388Q-What I want to know, page 10 of the nineteen ninety-eight (1998) policy or document...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: We're there. A- M'hm.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 389Q-... to your knowledge, is that the only provision that was in place within GM Canada with regard to goodwill adjustments for the year nineteen ninety-eight (1998)? A- I wouldn't know. Ninety-eight ('98)? 390Q-Yes. As an undertaking, I will ask you to verify and provide...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 391Q-... provide us with the information.
Undertaking No. 35 (Under reserve)
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve. We're supposed to have given you everything, that's what we say: "Les copies des règlementations de service après vente reliees a la garantie sont incluses pour les annees ninety-eight ('98), ninety-nine ('99), two thousand (2000), o one ('01), o two ('02), o three ('03), o four ('04) in English version. The year nineteen ninety-seven (1997) is no longer available in the French version." So we've given you everything we have.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-35: “Under reserve of GMCL’s objection, page 10 of article 1.5.3 of the GM Service policies and procedures manual for 1998 is the only reference manual used as a guideline for GMCL authorized dealers on how to apply individual goodwill adjustments”.
Paquette Gadler: La seule objection soulevée lors de l’interrogatoire du témoin est que M. Tossan n’est pas le témoin approprié pour répondre. M. Tossan est familié avec le document E-7 qui lui est présenté.
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50. |
Q. 401
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients (Informations contenues aux bulletins)
392Q-Mr. Tossan, I would like you to take undertaking E-19. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Question? Me GUY PAQUETTE: 393Q-My question, are you aware of these documents? A- Yes.
(…)
398Q-Were they referring the clients to those bulletins? A- Are they referring the clients to the bulletins? No, we wouldn't refer the clients to bulletins, we would ensure that we reviewed all the information that's in play, and we would explain what coverages or information would be pertinent to the customer so they understood what was occurring. 399Q-But you were not either sending them those bulletins or refer them to... A- No, we would normally not send along information to customer. 400Q-These bulletins, they are for the dealers or inside GM Canada only? A- It's for internal use. 401Q-Do you give information to the customers that, for example, in two thousand and one (2001) a bulletin was issued that they had fourteen (14) different kinds of leaks with regard to the vehicles, the subject vehicles? A- Did we give... can you...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Fourteen (14) kinds of fleets? Is that what you just said?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Of leaking water. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Leaks? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm objecting to the question. It's incomprehensible and it's...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. I will reformulate it. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's facetious. |
Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si GM informait ses consommateurs lorsque ceux-ci appelaient concernant un problème visé, par exemple de l’infiltration d’eau au véhicule visé, que ce problème avait déjà été cerné par GM via les bulletins.
La question a été reformulée à Q.404 et suivantes. Dans la mesure où la réponse donnée à Q. 404 et suivantes est acceptée, les questions Q.402 et Q.403 n’ont pas à être tranchées. |
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51. |
Q. 402/403
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients (Informations contenues aux bulletins)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 402Q-When a customer is calling the Customer Care Centre... A- Right. 403Q-... and he says, "My roof is leaking" or "My car is leaking, my carpet is all wet," as we see in a lot of those, okay...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I object to the qualification. That's not true. "A lot of those" meaning what?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 404Q-Let's take one (1) particular customer, okay? A person called, said, "My car is leaking, my carpet is all wet." Do you tell them that you have identified fourteen (14) different possibilities of leaks with regard to his vehicle? A- Well, the first thing we would tell them, if they're saying that their vehicle is leaking, is we would ask them if they've visited a dealer yet to run a diagnostic. What would the answer be in your scenario? 405Q-But do you mention, do you give them any information that you have already... GM Canada has already identified various causes of where the leaks can come from? A- No, what we're going to try to do... our centre is about capturing the complaint of the vehicle itself, understanding the condition, and then ensuring that the customer has visited dealerships, the dealership can execute proper root cause and diagnostics on the vehicle. 406Q-Okay. That means if I take undertaking E-19, E-20, E-23, E-24, you never brought to the attention of a customer the information that is contained in these bulletins when a customer called your Customer Care Centre? A- Are you talking, like, hypothetically or are you talking in the subject vehicles in the subject time period? 407Q-Yes. A- I wouldn't know what information was discussed with the customer in the subject vehicles in the subject time period.
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Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si GM informait ses consommateurs lorsque ceux-ci appelaient concernant un problème visé, par exemple de l’infiltration d’eau au véhicule visé, que ce problème avait déjà été cerné par GM via les bulletins.
La question a été reformulée à Q.404 et suivantes. Dans la mesure où la réponse donnée à Q. 404 et suivantes est acceptée, les questions Q.402 et Q.403 n’ont pas à être tranchées. |
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52. |
Q. 408/409 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients (Informations contenues aux bulletins)
408Q-Okay. But I want to know if your ambassadors at the Customer Care Centre are instructed to divulge this information, the information that is contained in Exhibit...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Asked and answered, but go ahead under reserve.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 409Q-... E-19, E-20, E-23 and E-24. A- No, we would not review in detail the service information with the customer.
|
Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si GM informait ses consommateurs lorsque ceux-ci appelaient concernant un problème visé, par exemple de l’infiltration d’eau au véhicule visé, que ce problème avait déjà été cerné par GM via les bulletins. La question spécifique de savoir si les ambassadeurs étaient avaient comme instruction de divulgué les informations contenues aux bulletins n’avait pas été posée ni répondue auparavant.
La question a été reformulée à Q.404 et suivantes.
|
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53. |
Q. 411 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée |
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients (Informations contenues aux bulletins) (E-25)
410Q-Now I'm going to E-25. Have you ever seen this bulletin? A- I have not reviewed this particular bulletin. Oh, actually, hold on. I've seen a lot of bulletins, I'm trying to remember which ones are in which place. 411Q-Okay. In this bulletin it says that... firstly, the first thing that it says, that: "Important: implementation of this service bulletin by GM of Canada dealers require prior District Service Manager approval." Do you know why this identification is there, when you told us last time that the dealer was totally autonomous in deciding to accept or refuse a warranty claim and even accept or refuse a goodwill warranty claim? Why in this case, to replace a roof, when you have a roof perforation, does the dealer need to obtain the approval of the District Service Manager?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve as to all the qualifications contained in your question, which some of them may be wholly inaccurate, go ahead and answer, if you know. A- I don't know exactly the rationale behind why the policy is written the way it's written.
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Paquette Gadler: Cette question est importante pour comprendre le niveau d’autonomie réel des concessionnaires par rapport à GM lorsque vient le temps de prendre des décisions concernant par exemple la réparation d’un véhicule visé sous la garantie ou sous le goodwill. |
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54. |
Q. 414
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients (Informations contenues aux bulletins) (E-25)
413Q-Okay. Now, under "Cause", it says: "During production, the E-coating ELPO primer may have been missed in concealed areas at the front or rear portion of the outer roof panel." Were you made aware of that? A- I'm not sure I understand your question. Was I made aware of it... 414Q-That the problem that the customers were calling to complain about the rust on the roof, the cause was the one mentioned in this service bulletin, E-25.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to the question because you're asking him to answer what all of the case history reports might say, and that's the only way he could answer your question.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, no, no, my question... I will make it more specific. 415Q-As Manager of the Customer Care Centre, have you been made aware by anybody at GM Canada that the cause of these problems that I just referred to was due that during production, the E-coating ELP0 primer may have been missed in concealed areas of the front or rear portion of the outer roof panel? Very simple question. A- Well, the way that he has been made aware is written on the bulletin. If I were to read the bulletin and... 416Q-Have you read the bulletin?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He told you yes. A- Yeah, I read the bulletin.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 417Q-That means you were made aware that the cause of the rust was...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Through the bulletin. A- The bulletin is internal information, it's available for us to review.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 418Q-Okay. A- And I have reviewed the bulletin.
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Paquette Gadler: Cette question est importante car elle permet de savoir ce que M. Brian Tossan, en tant que « Manager of the Customer Care Centre », recevait comme information concernant les problèmes visés aux véhicules visés.
Dans la mesure où la réponse à la question Q.415 et suivante est acceptée, l’objection sous Q. 413 n’a pas à être débattue.
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55. |
Q. 419
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec GM/MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients (Informations contenues aux bulletins)
419Q-Okay, perfect. Have you informed... has anybody at the Customer Care Centre informed customers that were calling to complain about the specific problem that is covered by this bulletin that the cause of their problem was the cause mentioned in this bulletin?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to that question. That requires a review of every case history.
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Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si GM via son CCC informait ses consommateurs lorsque ceux-ci appelaient concernant un problème visé et que ce problème avait déjà été cerné par GM via les bulletins et qu’elle en connaissait la cause.
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56. |
Q. 420 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec GM/MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients (Informations contenues aux bulletins)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 420Q-Have you, as Manager of the Customer Care Centre, given any instructions to any of your ambassadors to inform clients calling with regard to problems that are referred to in this bulletin, E-25, that the cause of their problem was the cause that is mentioned in the bulletin?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve of my objection that the witness has already answered you that that is not the role of the Customer Care Centre, to discuss technical opinions or reasons or causes for particular problems, but rather to direct customers to the appropriate people who are qualified to discuss that information, you can go ahead and answer the question.
A- Well, that's exactly it, we do not undergo diagnostics on the phone on a vehicle we can't see. The customer calls in with a complaint, the role of the Customer Care Centre is to capture the complaint information as accurately as possible, capture the customer's information, and ensure that the customer has gone to a certified General Motors dealer to have the vehicle reviewed and root cause and diagnosed at that location.
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Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si GM via son CCC informait ses consommateurs lorsque ceux-ci appelaient concernant un problème visé et que ce problème avait déjà été cerné par GM via les bulletins et qu’elle en connaissait la cause.
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57. |
Q. 422
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec GM/MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients (Informations contenues aux bulletins)
422Q-What I want to know, Mr. Tossan — it's a very, very simple question — has anybody at GM Canada informed in any way, shape or form the clients of GM Canada that the rust problem with the roof was due to a problem of production with the installation of the...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to the question. It was already asked and answered.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: We'll let Mrs. Justice Poulin decide this. 423Q-This bulletin is dated June two thousand...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm trying to understand what you want. We've already told you there's no recall. Everybody agrees there's never been a recall. There's a special bulletin, and the bulletin is discussed on a case-by-case basis by dealers and dealer representatives when vehicles are brought in for inspection. And they're told, they're advised of a potential problem, and then the problem is discussed and the issue is discussed. And you're looking for a general answer of what's done for all of these vehicles in every single case, when you know this is a case-by-case case.
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Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si GM via son CCC informait ses consommateurs lorsque ceux-ci appelaient concernant un problème visé et que ce problème avait déjà été cerné par GM via les bulletins et qu’elle en connaissait la cause.
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58. |
Q. 426
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec GM/MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients « RECALL »/ «Background summary»
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 424Q-I will refer you to... that's why I would like to have an index, but to the Case Activities 10690998, concerning Mrs. Maryse Bellemare, which was opened on August ten (10), two thousand and seven (2007).
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Bellemare? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. OFF RECORD Me GUY PAQUETTE: 425Q-You have the document, Mr. Tossan? A- Yes, we found it. 426Q-Okay. You see in the first row of the comment, it's: "Customer received recall concerning her roof. Roof is rusted, it cracked her windshield. Wants a new windshield placed, told her I will call dealership." Do you know why the person, the ambassador, is referring to a recall concerning her roof?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object to the question. It posits a fact which has not been established.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Very interesting. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: What makes you think that the ambassador is speaking as opposed to the customer? What makes you think the origin of the word "recall" is from the ambassador as opposed to the person calling, who has just spoken to your client, the APA, and received false information about a special policy, about a recall, and other linguistic... go see the case of Normandeau and you'll see how some of this language gets incorporated into the Customer Care database.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 427Q-Are you aware if there has been a recall for the roof on these vehicles? A- There are no recalls...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The question has already been answered by GM as an organization, there have been no recalls. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And I think you've admitted that in your proceedings, because I think it's one of your positions that there should have been one. Me GUY PAQUETTE: You seem to be very determined on this question, Mr. Nahmiash. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm just answering what I must do as my job and as counsel for GM. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And I won't let you incorporate into the record falsehoods, Maître Paquette, notwithstanding all the respect that I have for you and how pleasant I find spending the afternoon with you. Me GUY PAQUETTE: With pleasure, but let's wait how Mr. Tossan will answer the two (2) next questions. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Fine. Go ahead.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 428Q-Mr. Tossan, who is Micheline Caron? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If you know. A- Who is... I'm sorry?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 429Q-Micheline Caron. A- Micheline... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Caron, C-A-R-O-N, I presume. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. 430Q-I invite you to look at the document again. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Where do you see a reference...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Under "Background summary": "Micheline Caron - Management BG windshield broke because of corroded roof which is on recall." And that's not coming from the customer. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's the one who took the background summary. Where does that tell you that's Micheline Caron?
(…)
431Q-Mr. Tossan, since this morning, we went through this document, you explained to us line by line what they mean... A- Yeah. 432Q-... okay? And that's the first document where I see under "Background summary"... A- M'hm. 433Q-... between twelve (12) asterisks the name of a person called Micheline Caron - Management. Do you know why this mention was put there? A- I do not know why that mention was put there specifically. I don't have knowledge of this case.
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Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si GM via son CCC informait ses consommateurs lorsque ceux-ci appelaient concernant un problème visé et que ce problème avait déjà été cerné par GM via les bulletins et qu’elle en connaissait la cause.
Le document concernant Mme Maryse Bellemare fait référence à un rappel, il est pertinent de savoir pourquoi un représentant de GM a indiqué le terme « recall » dans ce document. Ce document a été créé par un représentant de GM tout comme les informations qui y sont inscrites et non pas par un consommateur. |
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59. |
Q. 435
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’information avec GM/MINACS, l’équipe des garantiEs et/ou clients « RECALL »/ « Background Summary »
434Q-And the BG, we still don't know what the BG means?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: B/G? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. A- I think the B/G might be "background". 435Q-Okay, perfect. And why would your ambassador put this sentence? It's not something that is reported as in comment, it's something that is in the GM part of the document. Why...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I object to that, that qualification, that presumption. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's a background summary. Who provides the background summary? The client or GM invents it?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 436Q-Do you know why your ambassador put this mention... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He's already told you he doesn't. Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, I want... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know why? A- Do I know why the ambassador...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 437Q-Put it there in the background... A- ... entered that information? I don't know why. I mean, this is a case that was far back. I do know that there's a number of ways that they develop background, and one of the most important ones is to understand what the complaint was and what the customer is complaining about. That usually forms and sets the background for the case. So if the customer calls in and explains that I have condition A and I have condition B or I have received this or I have done that, that's not necessarily verified real time at that moment. We will capture that as the situation and in some cases, the background. But I don't know necessarily, specifically on this case, on that line, why it was written that way.
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Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir l’information que transmettait GM via son CCC à ses consommateurs lorsque ceux-ci appelaient concernant un problème visé et que ce problème avait déjà été cerné par GM via les bulletins et qu’elle en connaissait la cause.
Le document fait référence à un rappel, il est pertinent de savoir pourquoi un représentant de GM a indiqué "Background summary": "Micheline Caron - Management BG windshield broke because of corroded roof which is on recall" dans ce document. Ce document a été créé par un représentant de GM tout comme les informations qui y sont inscrites et non pas par un consommateur. |
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60. |
Q. 449
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
Acceptation hors garantiE/ « Goodwill »
449Q-Can you tell us why, if this claim or this case was out of warranty by time and by kilometrage, why was it accepted under the warranty?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It was out of the warranty, why was it accepted by the warranty? That's your question?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. 450Q-It was out of the warranty, we see it on the first page, by time and by KM. A- Are you asking me to explain to you why the DSM's decision was the way it was? 451Q-Yes. A- That's your question? 452Q-Yes. A- To explain what the DSM's...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I think the... A- ... decision... 453Q-... report speaks for itself. Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, but I just want... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, no, you could interpret... Me GUY PAQUETTE: Maître...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... the document... I'm objecting. You're asking him to interpret a document...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: We'll let Mrs... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... created by another...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... Justice Poulin decide it.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If a payment... it was accepted by the company, as this record may show, then, obviously, a serious possibility is that that was a goodwill adjustment.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: But my question is why the decision was taken to go under the goodwill adjustment in this particular case.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The reasons? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: They appear from the file. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Which file? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: H'm?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Which file? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: This file. That's the only indication we have. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Can you show me where in this... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, no, you could... Me GUY PAQUETTE: Because I don't see... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He's not the witness to tell you. That's a technical question.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Who should be the witness to answer to me that? The DSM?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The document speaks for itself.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: That means each time that we'll have one of these documents, nobody will be able to give us any explanation on why such and such a claim was accepted or refused? That's what you're telling us?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Sometimes we'll have indications from the file as to why.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. 454Q-Now, if you go to page 2 of this document...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: And the files will contain a number of information, sometimes they'll contain pictures, sometimes they'll contain position of the DSM, sometimes they'll contain... that's why you need a file-by-file review.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: But I don't think he's the... I'm not saying you're not entitled to look at that information, don't mistake what I'm saying. I think that is relevant information to determine on a case-by-case basis why a reason was made to deny or to accept.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, but let me...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: A request, but I'm saying it's wholly inappropriate for you to say to a witness after the fact "Come and interpret this document and tell me why".
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61. |
Q. 455/456/ 457/458
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Acceptation hors garantiE/ « Goodwill »
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. 455Q-Mr. Tossan, if you go to page 2 of this document, the third last entry of the page. A- Yeah. 456Q-It says that the DSM has advised the customer that if the windshield breaks during repair, it will not cover it, but this is the only offer. Okay? Tell me why, just so that I understand what is the mental process behind it, okay, that you have a customer who has a roof that has to be replaced because of rust — let me just terminate, Mr. Nahmiash, please...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I didn't say anything.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 457Q-... that is completely outside of its contractual warranty with GM Canada by time and by kilometrage, okay, that GM decides to replace this roof nonetheless, but that if in the course of this replacement, the person at GM or at the dealer breaks the windshield, and we know that has happened more than once, that the windshield will be the responsibility of the...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to your question.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 458Q-... of the customer?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Your question is not a question, your question is an editorial filled with facts that you haven't even begun to establish.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I just want to restate that what I want to understand is how it was working, how the decision process was built, how the customer may know when he was covered...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Why don't you ask... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... inside... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... the customers? Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... warranty, outside warranty... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Why don't you ask your... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... for what... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... customers? They were direct witnesses to the decision. Me GUY PAQUETTE: We'll let the Court decide.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yeah. Me GUY PAQUETTE: I think it's a very pertinent and interesting question. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, I will not have somebody, after the fact, report on a document ten (10) years later. Me GUY PAQUETTE: I think this whole case... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... is just about... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... especially when he's not the person who's already told you...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He's not the person making the decision. And this is very important in order to settle this objection, Maître Paquette. The Court should know that it's already been readily established on numerous occasions that the whole function of the Customer Care Centre is to record as faithfully as possible what complaint was made, not to determine whether it's accurate, but to leave to others in the Warranty sector, like DSMs and others, the decision-making authority to see whether or not the repair is accepted.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, but that means... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's not... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... what... what... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So for you to... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... what... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... for you to... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... what you're telling me is that the decision of all the DSMs across Quebec and across Canada was based on a totally arbitrary decision from the DSM...
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62. |
Q. 460
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 459Q-Let's continue. I'm going back to undertaking E-25. A- Okay, yeah. 460Q-It's clear that in two thousand and two (2002) GM knew that they had some problem with the roof on these vehicles.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object. Stop making editorials, ask him factual questions.
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Voir question reformulée à Q.461. |
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63. |
Q. 461
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Continuation/Arrêt de modèles
Me GUY PAQUETTE: [461]840Q-I want to know which steps have been taken from June two thousand and two (2002) — actually, it's because I think GM Canada knew before that - to change the build of these vehicles, that the production was stopped in two thousand and four (2004).
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object. You'll ask that to somebody from Engineering. Wrong witness again. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 462Q-I just want to know if you, Mr. Tossan, know if any steps have been taken by GM Canada to change the way these vehicles... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm not... Me GUY PAQUETTE: 463Q-... were... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... going to... Me GUY PAQUETTE: 464Q-... built... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: .. somebody from the Customer Care Centre answer engineering questions. Me GUY PAQUETTE: I'm just asking him if... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No. Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... if he is aware.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No. We decided to pursue three (3) depositions in three (3) sectors with the appropriate people. You either respect that pact and that agreement beforehand or you don't.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, no... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: But you're not going to ask undertakings on all three (3) subjects from all three (3) witnesses. Me GUY PAQUETTE: I just want to remind you that Mr. Tossan's department is the link with the customer, okay? And if... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He's not... he's not designing. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, but he is there to give the information... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I don't... I don't need... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... to the customer.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... you to tell me what Mr. Tossan does. I'm fully aware and I'm fully aware how we arranged these depositions. And I think you should stick to the... how we agreed to proceed, because you've received an abundance of information and documentation so far from appropriate people. I've agreed and we've agreed to provide you a witness from Engineering who will be wholly capable of addressing those questions.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: And we'll go there.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So ask him... ask design questions to design individuals with the knowledge to answer you.
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Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si les représentants de GM au CCC était au courant que des modifications avaient été apportés aux véhicules visés, entre autres, afin de comprendre comment étaient échangées les informations entre les représentants de GM techniques qui n’avaient pas accès aux consommateurs et les représentants au CCC qui eux avaient un lien avec les consommateurs. Si une problématique était résolue par les représentants plus techniques, il est important de savoir si cette information était relayée au CCC. |
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64. |
Q. 465 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
Continuation/Arrêt de modèles
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 465Q-Are you aware if any modifications have been made to these vehicles through the years that they were sold and manufactured?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Again, same objection. Under reserve, if you know. A- No, I don't know.
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Paquette Gadler: Il est pertinent de savoir si les représentants de GM au CCC était au courant que des modifications avaient été apportés aux véhicules vises, entre autres, afin de comprendre comment étaient échangées les informations entre les représentants de GM techniques qui n’avaient pas accès aux consommateurs et les représentants au CCC qui eux avaient un lien avec les consommateurs. Si une problématique était résolue par les représentants plus techniques, il est important de savoir si cette information était relayée au CCC.
Cette question est pertinente pour connaître le niveau de connaissance de M. Brian Tossan à titre de « Manager Customer Care Centre » concernant les problèmes visés. Comme le témoin dit ne pas savoir, cette question, entre autres, sera également posée au représentant de GM technique.
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65. |
Q. 474 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée |
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garanties et/ou clients INFORMATIONS CONTENUES AUX BULLETINS
469Q-Now, I'm going to the third bulletin, which is the October two thousand and one (2001) bulletin, number 010851004. A- 010851004F? 470Q-No. A- Oh. 471Q-"F" is probably for "French". A- Okay, sorry, I've got the wrong one then. Is this still in 25? 472Q-No, two thousand and one (2001). A- Okay, I think I've got it. October two thousand and one (2001)? 473Q-Yes. A- Okay. 474Q-Do you know why on the subject title they use "Premature Aluminum Hood Corrosion Blistering or Finishing"?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Same objection. Under reserve, if you know. A- I do not know why.
|
Paquette Gadler: Cette question est pertinente pour connaître le niveau de connaissance de M. Brian Tossan à titre de « Manager Customer Care Centre » concernant les problèmes visés. Comme le témoin dit ne pas savoir, cette question, entre autres, sera également posée au représentant de GM technique. |
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66. |
Q. 480/481 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garanties et/ou clients INFORMATIONS CONTENUES AUX BULLETINS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 479Q-Do you know why the same mention came back on the bulletin number 010851004B of August two thousand and five (2005)? A- Sorry, what was the question? 480Q-Do you know why the same mention of premature aluminum... A- Oh.
481Q-... will come back on this bulletin of August two thousand and five (2005)?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Same objection. Under reserve, go ahead if you know. A- No, I do not know why.
|
Paquette Gadler: Cette question est pertinente pour connaître le niveau de connaissance de M. Brian Tossan à titre de « Manager Customer Care Centre » concernant les problèmes visés. Comme le témoin dit ne pas savoir, cette question, entre autres, sera également posée au représentant de GM technique. |
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67. |
Q. 484 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée |
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garanties et/ou clients INFORMATIONS CONTENUES AUX BULLETINS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 482Q-Now I'm going to the document called "Water Leaks at Overhead Console Map KW Body (inaudible) Door Front Lamp Right Roof Water Window", dated April second (2nd), two thousand and four (2004). A- It's in English right? 483Q-Yes. A- Okay, I think I have it.
484Q-Do you know how come at number 3 it says "Door weather strip not sealed properly"? Who didn't seal properly the door weather strip?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Same objection. If you know. A- The question is, do I know... do I know... Me GUY PAQUETTE: 485Q-What happened. A- What happened...
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Paquette Gadler: Cette question est pertinente pour connaître le niveau de connaissance de M. Brian Tossan à titre de « Manager Customer Care Centre » concernant les problèmes visés. Comme le témoin dit ne pas savoir, cette question, entre autres, sera également posée au représentant de GM technique. |
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68. |
Q. 491 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garanties et/ou clients INFORMATIONS CONTENUES AUX BULLETINS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 486Q-I'm going to bulletin number 010857006, "Guide de diagnostiques générale des infiltrations d'eau". I'll just look if we have an English one. Have you ever seen this bulletin either in French or in English? A- No, I don't think I read this bulletin. Or this diagnostic guide, actually. 487Q-Have you been aware of the complaints that may be raised by clients with regard to water infiltration in those cars, in the subject vehicles, and the cause of these infiltrations or leakage of water? A- All the complaints against the subject vehicles are in the E-83 package. 488Q-That's the only knowledge you have about it? A- Yes. 489Q-I'm going to page 5 of 16 of these documents. It says in French, and I'll try to translate it for you in English: "L'etancheite du faisceau de fils, des cable ou de l'evacuation de chauffage/ventilation/climatisation (HVAC) traversant l'avant du tableau de bord peut être mal faite. Se referer aux fleches de l'illustration ci-dessus." It says that the etancheite of the cables...l'etancheite, it's the sealant. Do we have it in English, this one?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: L'etancheite? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's the impermeability. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. I think I have it in English. Yes, we have it in English. 490Q-If you go to page 4 of 15: "Some customers may comment on a mildew odour on the front floor as well. Cause: harness cables are the HVAC drain that pass through the front of dash may not be sealed properly. Refer to DRO and the above illustration." Do you know why these parts were not sealed properly? A- No. No, I do not know why. 491Q-Have you inquired about them, the cause, the reason?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Same objection. Under reserve, go ahead. A- Sorry, so I just want to make clear; you want to know if I inquired about the cause of the cause? That's what you're asking, right?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 492Q-Yes, the cause. A- The cause of the cause? 493Q-Yes. A- No, I have not inquired about the cause of the cause. 494Q-Okay. And if I ask you for the other conditions that are referred in this document and the causes that are mentioned in them, are you aware of or have you inquired about any reason why those causes were there, creating these problems? A- The cause of the cause? 495Q-Yes. A- No, I have not inquired specifically on this strategy-based diagnostic guide on the causes of the cause. 496Q-Okay. I will reserve those questions and further ones for the persons in technical...
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Paquette Gadler: Cette question est pertinente pour connaître le niveau de connaissance de M. Brian Tossan à titre de « Manager Customer Care Centre » concernant les problèmes visés tel que décrit au bulletin.
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69. |
Q. 499
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée |
GARANTIE/LIAISON DU CONSOMMATEUR RAPPORT DE GARANTIE E-32
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 497Q-I'm going to E-32, Mr. Tossan. A- It's the warranty report. 498Q-It's not the same one. A- Right, another warranty report. 499Q-Yes. I want to know, where is this report coming from, and what's the difference between this one and E-...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object. He can't answer that engagement that was prepared by Mr. Sevigny. Do you know anything about how this report was generated? A- No, I do not. 500Q-Okay. |
Paquette Gadler: Cette question est pertinente pour connaître le niveau de connaissance de M. Brian Tossan à titre de « Manager Customer Care Centre » concernant les problèmes visés.
|
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70. |
U-36 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Programme de médiation et d’arbitrage
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 513Q-Now, I'm going to undertakings 52, 53 and 54, which concern the Arbitration Program that was run by CAMVAP. Are you aware of this program? A- I am.
(…)
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 518Q-And Mr. Sevigny answered to our undertakings, and I refer you to... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yeah, and you already had the answer that you're asking for, in any event, if you bothered to read it. E-52 says: "Neuf (9) persons en total utilized this program."
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, but what I would like to have is the decisions coming out from this mediation process.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I think we gave you... hold on. Me GUY PAQUETTE: It's E-56, E-57.
(…)
A- What's the name of the customer? Me GUY PAQUETTE: 519Q-Joseph Filler. Do you have... we'll just move to another one, I don't want to lose too much time. We want the decisions, if there are any, with regard to these arbitrations.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll verify under the same reserve of an objection as the last time.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-36: “Under reserve of GMCL’S objection, all arbitration cases were settled. Therefore there were no decisions rendered by CAMVAP ” |
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71. |
Q. 522
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Programme de médiation et d’arbitrage
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 521Q-Serge Poirier is the name of the customer. Do you have it?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes, I do.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 522Q-Okay. We would like to know the result of this mediation or arbitration claim. And the other thing that I would like to know, in the summary, Mr. Tossan, it says: "No assist vehicle behind in time and kilometrage, not original owner, third or fourth, no dealer relationship, not purchased at dealer, goodwill to customer vehicle behind goodwill." What do you mean by... what constitutes being behind goodwill for you at GM?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to the question. It's incomprehensible and you're asking him to comment on the words of other people and speculate on their intent.
A- I don't really understand that.
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72. |
U-37
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Programme de médiation et d’arbitrage
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 523Q-I'm going to claim number 10654922. Do you have it? The customer name is Rosaire Tremblay.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes. You see, you have the result that's been written by the employee. You see what's written by hand on the previous report? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: "Serge Poirier vehicle repaired at no cost. See history file. CAMVAP 2004. CAMVAP 2007 settled door and fender at no cost."
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 524Q-Okay. But just stay on this page for one second. I want to know what is your ambassador meaning when they say: "Dealer will touch up areas where it could be manufacturer's responsibility." What will determine what can be manufacturer's responsibility in this case?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If you know. A- Sorry, is this under the heading "CAMVAP Request received April 19th, 2007"? 525Q-M'hm. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 526Q-That's correct. A- Okay. 527Q-We see that this customer was outside his warranty time in kilometrage. And somebody typed: "Dealer will touch up areas where it could be manufacturer's responsibility." A- M'hm. 528Q-And I want to know which areas can be manufacturer's responsibility in this case and for which reason it can be manufacturer's responsibility.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know? A- I'd have to read the case. I mean, I don't know the answer to that question off the top of my head. It's the first time I've seen this case.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 529Q-I will ask you to verify as an undertaking and provide us with the answer to this question, if you can find the answer.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to that because that's an abusive request. Do you want him to go back to a report in two thousand and seven (2007) and try to figure out why this was written down in the report? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No. Have your experts comment on it.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-37: “Under reserve of GMCL’S objection, it appears, from the case activities, that the manufacturer’s warranty of 3 years/60 000 km covering paint defects had expired. This was a stone chipping issue where the manufacturer’s liability was never determined and the decision to assume the repair was purely economic. (i.e. cost of CAMVAP exceeded the cost of repairs)”
Paquette Gadler : L’engagement E-56 (E-52) ne demandait que les fiches internes pour les neufs (9) personnes qui ont utilisé le programme pour les problèmes visés. |
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73. |
Q. 533/534/ 535
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Comment un représentant de GM ou un concessionnaire peut-il savoir si une réclamation est admissible ou non? (Ex. Perforation) existe-t’il des « Guideline » quelconque? Comment savent-ils s’ils doivent remplacer la pièce avec frais ou sans frais pour le client?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 530Q-Now, if we go to the third page of this document... A- The third page? 531Q-Yes. A- Okay. 532Q-You see the section that starts with: "SM Daniel Lapointe advised that this problem has been reviewed by DSM Samuel Alfred, National Director of Service, François Laurier and also Réal Purcell. Customer was previously offered fifty/fifty (50/50) to repair vehicle, customer refused. Customer wants to purchase new GM from another GM dealer. Customer has been told by SM..." What is SM? A- Service Manager. 533Q-Okay. "... if he purchased new vehicle from Paul Albert dealer, he won't have to worry about the paint repair." My first question, if there are problems that are due to manufacturer responsibility, why is the customer asked to pay...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Don't answer...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 534Q-... fifty percent (50%)...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... the question.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 535Q-... of the...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He's arguing with you. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's not a factual question. Me GUY PAQUETTE: I found it was... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's a hypothetical question. "If", you don't begin factual questions with "if".
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 536Q-I want to know how it works, how this decision to change the decision of the split fifty/fifty (50/50) to one hundred percent (100%), where do the three (3) persons that seem to be senior within the organization take the instruction to proceed in such a case, in this particular case?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know who makes the decision in this file? A- In this file, no, I'd have... again, I haven't even read this file. I don't know the answer to your question off the top of my head. Again, everything is case by case and typically the process is the DSM needs to review and render the decision. But everything is case by case.
|
Question a également été reformulée à Q. 536. |
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74. |
Q. 545 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
|
CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC) Échange d’informations avec GM et/ou MINACS, l’équipe des garanties et/ou clients INFORMATIONS CONTENUES AUX BULLETINS
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 545Q-Do you know if Mr. Tremblay was informed in this case that some manufacturing problem exists with regard to his vehicle, as mentioned in the various bulletins that we looked at before?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object to the question. Under reserve, do you know anything factually about this case on a direct basis? A- I do not have direct personal knowledge of this case.
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75. |
Q. 553
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Acceptation hors garantie/ « Goodwill »
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 546Q-Okay. I'm going now to the arbitration request under case number 10262202.
(…)
551Q-Okay. You see it says: "Quebec Legal received a CAMVAP qualification request form for defective hood paint." A- I think it's "defective". 552Q-Defective, yes, probably. "... hood paint. We will cover the paint under goodwill." Do you know how the intellectual process has been made, or the decision has been made to decide on July fourteen (14), two thousand and three (2003) to cover the claim of the customer after he filed with CAMVAP?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you have any direct knowledge how the decision was arrived at? A- No, I do not. 553Q-Okay.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 554Q-Okay. Can you tell us what were the criteria that were applicable to the fact of accepting a goodwill claim or refusing a goodwill claim with regard to the problems that were affecting the subject vehicles during the whole period?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object to the question, as I already repeatedly told you that there is no special policy, it's a case-by-case assessment, that's what the bulletins say. And he doesn't have any idea, any direct knowledge of what case-by-case considerations were made in this case.
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76. |
U-38 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
FLOTTES LEASES
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 558Q-I'm just going to Exhibit E-61, Mr. Tossan. A- E-61. 559Q-I just want to understand correctly this table. This morning you mentioned to us that the smart lease was applicable to clients from GM Canada that had a good credit rating and that the retail lease were not with GM Canada. Is that correct?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: His testimony has been transcribed.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 560Q-Is my understanding correct? A- Yeah, smart lease customers would typically have a lease that would have qualified with GM, and the retail lease is for customers that typically would have a lease with the dealer programs. 561Q-Okay. Now, I want to know for the fleet lease, are the fleet leases with GM Canada?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know? A- I don't know.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 562Q-As an undertaking, I will ask you to verify and provide us with the answer.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Why don't you ask Mr. Sevigny, since you think you're going to bring him back, in any event, right? That's Mr. Sevigny's document. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, but it's not really something coming from warranty, if you agree with me, it's just... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You asked for a breakdown on lease and retail sales in Quebec. Listen, if we... what do you want to know?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I will tell you exactly what I want to know, it will be easier. I want to know how it works with all these categories, okay? For example, I understand that if it's a fleet sale or a retail sale, I take for granted that GM Canada takes the car, and I want to know if he sells it directly to the dealership or if he sells it directly to the customer.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, GM Canada never sells directly to the customer, never. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It sells only to dealers.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: As an undertaking, what I want to understand, what is the chain of title of these various transactions that are mentioned in undertaking E-61. For example, if it's a fleet lease with a fleet customer, the fleet lease is between whom, okay, and what happens at the end of the lease with the car. If it's a fleet sale, the fleet sale is between which parties exactly. Okay? We will have to understand that to be able to understand what are the legal consequences and who are the beneficial owners of the contractual warranty and the legal warranty. We want to know, for the smart lease, how it works; for the retail lease, how it works.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I understand that since Kravitz, the actual lease documentation is irrelevant and that you have a direct recourse against the manufacturer. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, but we want to understand... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So why is the paper trail so important? Me GUY PAQUETTE: To be able to identify who are the members of the group in this authorized class action, and what are the chain of title by which they acquire their rights. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, the group is defined, and it's defined not only as owners, but I think lessees as well. Me GUY PAQUETTE: I understand, but... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So I don't understand...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, no, but firsthand owner, secondhand owner, third-hand owner, somebody that is firsthand lessee, after that the lease expired, what happened with the car? Is the person purchasing the car by an option in the lease? Are there any options in the lease? If yes, how it works; if not, what happened with the car at the end of the lease?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Just for fleets?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, for fleet and retail.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So for a hundred and two thousand nine hundred (102,900) vehicles... Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, I... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... you want me to pull you the contracts... Me GUY PAQUETTE: No... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... and let you know if an option was exercised?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, that's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you to give us general explanation, general information about how it works, how it is structured. For example, when I try to define who are members of the group, okay, or when the Court tries to identify who is a member of the group, that we understand what is a purchase order of first level, of second level, of third level, what the lessee...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I don't understand what you expect me to explain to you that you wouldn't know from the testimony of a customer who says, "This is the fifth time this vehicle is sold, I bought it from the fifth..." I mean, I don't know what you want me to tell you. A vehicle could be sold many times.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, but... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you think we have a piece of paper that says "This is when it sold the first time, this is when it sold the second time, this is when it sold the third time"? Me GUY PAQUETTE: I think so, yes.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, we don't have that kind of paper. Me GUY PAQUETTE: And I want to know what happens when the leases are terminating.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Well, you know what happens; the leases contain an option to purchase. Look at your client's own lease. He had an option to purchase, which he exercised. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, but was that a smart lease or was that a retail lease? Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, who did he finance with? GMAC or the dealer? The contract is there. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Well, it's clear for you, it's not clear for us.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Well, yes, it is clear. You just asked the witness what's a smart lease, you have a definition, now it's clear. I don't know what you want me to do, pull you all the leases for every customer for a hundred and two thousand nine hundred (102,900 cases?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, I just want to understand, in these five (5) possibilities that you gave us in this undertaking E-...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Whether there's an option to purchase under a fleet lease?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I just want to know who are the parties to each and every one of these five (5) types of relationships.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve, yeah, because, frankly, I don't really see how it's relevant. But, in any event, if we could find this... in general, who are the parties under a fleet lease, a fleet sale, a retail lease, a retail sale, a smart lease, even though the witness has already told you a smart lease, the parties are the customer and GMAC or its successor?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: You were the first one to mention GMAC this afternoon. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, that's not true.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No. No, a smart lease is when the sale meets the credit criteria. Me GUY PAQUETTE: But I didn't know that the credit entity that will... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Anyways... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... undertake...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... we'll give you a general description of what those categories mean, okay?
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-38: “Under reserve of GMCL’S objection, the parties under a fleet lease or fleet sale are companies who have an account number to either purchase or lease vehicles through GMCL dealers. A retail sale or retail lease is a general customer who either buys or leases a vehicle from a GMCL dealer. A smart lease is a lease contracted though GMAC/Ally Credit. GMCL is not a party to any sale or lease contracts, therefore, it has no information whatsoever regarding the general sales or service history of a vehicle other than the warranty information ”
Paquette Gadler : Cette question est pertinente. La seule objection concerne le choix du témoin. Comme l’interrogatoire de M. Mario Sévigny a été suspendu, nous pourrions demander à M. Sévigny de se présenter à nouveau pour répondre à cet engagement dans l’éventualité où l’objection ou la réserve était maintenue.
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77. |
Q. 587
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Autres documents/éléments de preuve stéphane vermette DOCUMENT de Garantie
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 587Q-I want to understand one (1) thing; for the corrosion problem that Mr. Vermette had on his car, that was covered by the six-year 160,000-kilometre warranty?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object to the formulation of the question. Do you want to know what the applicable warranty on your client's vehicle was?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. 588Q-If you know. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If you know. Do you know for a fact? Do you know for a fact what the warranty was given to him, without surmising, speculating or guessing? A- No, I don't know for an absolute fact.
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Paquette Gadler:
La question a été reformulée à Q. 588, dans la mesure où la réponse donnée à Q.588 est acceptée, l’objection à la question Q. 587 n’aura pas à être débattue. |
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78. |
Q. 593 (Under reserve)
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Autres documents/éléments de preuve stéphane vermette DOCUMENT de Garantie
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 589Q-Okay. Can you tell me why the section in the two (2) case activity reports, in/out warranty, nothing was mentioned for? A- Sorry, can you repeat the question again? 590Q-In the two (2) case reports... A- Yes. 591Q-... in the in/out warranty, in both cases nothing was mentioned.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know why? A- I don't know why.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 592Q-Do Mrs. or Mr. Trudel and Mr. St-Cyr still work for you?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: He's never said that he worked for him.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, but worked in the Customer Care Centre. A- No, I'm sure Mr. St-Cyr does not. I'd have to confirm about Ms. Trudel. 593Q-Are you surprised to see that nothing was filled in about the warranty applicable in this case? A- You mean in the "In/out warranty" field? 594Q-Yes. A- Am I surprised? 595Q-Yes.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Under reserve.
A- I would say that it's not unusual to have some information missing on the fields, so it's not overly surprising. But that is one of the fields that is populated more often than not.
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79. |
U-41
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Autres documents/éléments de preuve stéphane vermette DOCUMENT de Garantie
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 597Q-Do you know if it has been established if Mr. Vermette's claim was within or without the warranty?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know personally? A- I do not know personally, no. But again, I wanted to state that using the input fields here to determine whether something was or was not established is probably not a safe thing to do. Not all the time is the information always populated. It's subject to human error, as much as anything else.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 598Q-What do you mean by that? A- Well, I mean, just for instance, you know, not always is all the information always captured in every single field, that's all I'm saying. So just because it's not shown here on the in/out warranty, that does not necessarily mean that the warranty coverage was not reviewed. 599Q-Okay. I want to know if a general assessment of the situation with regard to the subject vehicle has been made by GM Canada or any of its representatives, considering that it may have a premature corrosion problem, as mentioned in the bulletins.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If you understand the question. A- I'm going to need you to repeat that again. I apologize, I don't think I completely understood.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 600Q-No problem. I want to know if a general assessment of the situation with regard to the subject vehicle has been made by GM Canada or any of its representatives, considering that premature corrosion has been identified in the bulletins.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Ever or before the recourse or after the recourse? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Both.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: To your knowledge. A- A general assessment? 601Q-A general assessment. To your knowledge. A- Well, no, to my direct knowledge, I'm not aware of any general assessments per se.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 602Q-Okay. As an undertaking, I will ask you to verify and provide us with...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Where is he going to verify? He told you he's not aware of any. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Well, within the files of the organization. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No. No, we've already verified and we've answered that question, it's always the same thing you're looking for, some kind of special policy, special consideration, special assessment, it's a case-by-case decision-making process. We've nanswered you on multiple occasions, I object.
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80. |
Q. 603
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
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Autres documents/éléments de preuve stéphane vermette DOCUMENT de Garantie
603Q-Do you believe, Mr. Tossan, that such a special assessment should have been done in the present circumstances?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: It's completely irrelevant, his opinions. Why don't you ask your expert if he believes that?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 604Q-Do you know why Mr. Vermette's case was not considered for goodwill warranty in the present circumstances?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If you know. A- Do I know why it was not? Me GUY PAQUETTE: 605Q-Yes. A- No, I don't have personal knowledge as to what was reviewed there.
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81. |
Q. 606
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
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Autres documents/éléments de preuve stéphane vermette DOCUMENT de Garantie
606Q-Because here you have somebody that is complaining on September twenty-seventh (27th), two thousand and four (2004), who has a nineteen ninety-eight (1998) car, a car that is six (6) years old and has one hundred fifteen thousand kilometres (115,000 km) on his car. And we don't know from this document if he was still within the warranty or not. And we don't know from these documents — tell me if I'm wrong —if any assessment has been done considering that you knew that you had problems with these vehicles, and it shows from your records, that no assessment has been done if premature corrosion happened to Mr. Vermette's vehicle in the present circumstances...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to that question, it's not a question. That's multiple inaccuracies combined together with a question mark at the end. Again, I invite you to read our Defense, General Motors' Defense, on the subject, which is quite clear as to why the decision was made. And I think the document you're referring to the witness now refers to the DSM and identifies the DSM who made that decision.
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82. |
Q. 610
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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Acceptation hors garantie/ « Goodwill »
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 607Q-Can you tell me, in undertaking E-4, Volume 5...from what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, E-4 is the French and the English version of the warranty manual applying between GM Canada and the dealership.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: If you know. A- Sorry, I'm just opening it. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 608Q-Yes. A- Sorry, your question again was?
609Q-If I understand correctly, these documents are the French and the English versions of the policy of the previous and the actual policy applying to claims made by dealers to GM Canada with regard to warranty. A- Right, this is the claims processing manual. 610Q-Okay. Can you show me where in these manuals we talk about goodwill warranty?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The manual speaks for itself. It's a very lengthy document, which he's not going to read page by page for you now, and which he certainly has not memorized as a representative of the Customer Care Centre.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: I understand that you're making... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yes, I'm making... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... an objection. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... an objection, yeah.
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83. |
Q. 613
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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COMPENSATION AUX MEMBRES DU GROUPE?
611Q-If we look at E-53...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: We're done with 4? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. E-83, sorry. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: 83? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Which one? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Any one that has... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Let's take BT-3.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay, BT-3, perfect. That's a perfect example, let's take this one, that's the case activity number 10794314. 612Q-This customer had to go back and forth a lot of times, we see it's on four (4) pages, between November seven (7), two thousand and eight (2008) and December twenty-fourth (24th), two thousand and eight (2008) to have his vehicle repaired.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Is there a question there? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, it's coming. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The report speaks for itself.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 613Q-My question is, considering that those problems were due to manufacturing defects or specs, as we have seen in the bulletins, or construction, is there any compensation that has been paid to any GM Canada customer with regard to the troubles that have been occasioned to them by these defects to the subject vehicles?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'll object to the question. It's replete with legal conclusions. If you have a factual question, submit it to the witness. Me GUY PAQUETTE: It's a factual question, I want... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Change the formulation of your question, remove the twenty-six (26) legal conclusions you made, and then ask a factual question.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 614Q-We have just over one hundred thousand (100,000) vehicles, subject vehicles, that have been sold in Quebec between nineteen ninety-seven (1997) and two thousand and four (2004), okay? We know that about ten thousand (10,000) of these vehicles have had to have repairs to the vehicles during the subject period. And I want to know for those customers, if any of those have been compensated for the time they lost to have their vehicle repaired because of the subject problems that are covered by this class action.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Have they received any form of compensation for the time that the vehicle... Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes, an the trouble... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... was being repaired? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know? A- I don't know for any fact.
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84. |
U-42
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée |
COMPENSATION AUX MEMBRES DU GROUPE?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 615Q-As an undertaking, I will ask you to verify and provide us with the answer.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, I think it's too broad. The case history, you have the information, you'll see with the warranties and everything else. It's impossible for us to verify at this point.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-42: “The objection is maintained, no evidence was adduced of any loss of time. It is overly broad and abusive and lack of foundational support. ” |
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85. |
U-43
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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Durée de vie normale des véhicules visés
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 616Q-Do you know if GM Canada has in its records any documents relating to the probable length of use of the subject vehicle without corrosion or paint or any problem, subject problems?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Wait. I don't even understand what you're saying, so please...
Me GUY PAQUETTE: CIIQ-I want to know if GM Canada has within its records any document giving indication to what will be the standard life of these vehicles without problems like the subject problem covered by this class action. For example, let me be very clear, I want to know if, for example, this kind of U-van, okay, if it's supposed to be going without corrosion problems for a certain length of time.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know? A- That's like a technical question?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 618Q-Yes. A- What is the... I don't know that for a fact. 619Q-Okay. As an undertaking, I will ask you to...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object. I don't think he's the proper witness. You'll ask the Engineering questions, so we'll keep questions on technical issues to the Engineering person.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-43: “The objection is maintained. The question requests opinion evidence. ”
Paquette Gadler: Si l’objection est maintenue, nous demandons à ce que cet engagement soit répondu par un représentant technique de GM. |
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86. |
Q. 693
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
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CUSTOMER CARE CENTRE (CCC)
691Q-I'm going to the case file number 10719335, it's Mrs. Liette Allard who is the customer. A- Yeah. 692Q-Can you read the comment in the bottom right side?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: No, he cannot. It speaks for itself. Do you have a question of fact for the witness? Me GUY PAQUETTE: I don't think you have the right document in front of you. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I have the file of Liette Allard, customer. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Maybe she has more than one (1) It's a one-page document. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I have a two-page document. Do you have a factual question? Me GUY PAQUETTE: Yes.
693Q-I want to understand why the Customer Care Centre...what was the rationale for the Customer Care Centre to tell this customer that even if he has rust on his roof and was within the warranty period for perforation, to do nothing and that GM will do nothing with the trouble that that lady has with her car.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to the question. That's a complete misstatement of what's written there.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. 694Q-Can you...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: The Customer Care Centre didn't tell the client anything about it. It's a decision it made with respect to the vehicle. Customer Care Centre only reports a decision that a DSM made. And DSM, I think you remember, Maître, represents District Service Manager.
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87. |
U-51
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
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ORANGE PEEL
699Q-We'll give it an exhibit
number, BT-8(a) and 8(b). Which is 10719335. And BT-8(b) will be 10567799.
It's a case file. Exhibit BT-8(a) A- I'm going to have to go back and verify. It's not clearly spelled out there, the name of the DSM. 700Q-Okay. I will ask you as an undertaking to provide us with this information so that we can proceed with the interrogatory of this gentleman or lady.
Undertaking No. 50
701Q-On the same document, do you know... under "Complaint description" we talk about orange peel; do you know what is "orange peel"? It's all over the document, but I have no idea what is "orange peel".
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You don't know what an orange peel is? Well, look in the dictionary what an orange peel is. Do you know what an orange peel is? Have you eaten an orange before in your life? Yes? A- Yes, I have. 702Q-Okay. He knows what an orange peel is. Do you have any other fascinating questions for us? Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, no, I'm not joking, I'm serious... I know what is... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm... I'm very... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... an orange... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... serious.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Why is it on the activities report. Under the "Complaint description", they talk about "orange peel" for four (4) pages. I just want to know if Mr. Tossan has... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Do you know why they decided to talk about that? And don't speculate. Do you have any direct knowledge as to why they chose those words?
A- I don't have direct knowledge as to why they chose those words.
703Q-Okay. Me GUY PAQUETTE: 704Q-Do you have any knowledge whatsoever?
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Maître, again, your objective is quite clear. You want to isolate the few reports where the answer seems to be... suggest that whatever you might think is favourable to your case and you just want to focus on limited reports out of over twelve hundred (1,200) reports and enter them into the record and make it appear that that's the reality of the story here. It isn't. And on top of it, you want to ask questions about why technical decisions were made from somebody who is not technical. Then I say to you again, I've said it many times, the appropriate people to ask these questions to are either the DSM, the person who made the decision on a case-by-case basis, or somebody in Engineering who could better interpret perhaps what technical terms mean, or experts, once they've reviewed these files and they come to their conclusion as to whether the denial was founded and on what criteria. But this is all interpretive work that should not be done by the head of the Customer Service Centre, whose only function is to reproduce words provided by the customer in a text.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. You think that they have a specific complaint description that is called "orange peel"... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I don't know... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... because... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: ... any more than you do, Maître Paquette. Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... because... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: You are guessing... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... the expression was used by a customer, and that's why the...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I don't know. I don't know how it found there... I know what the witness has told you repeatedly today, that the Customer Care Centre is trained to replicate as concisely and as faithfully as possible what the customer complains of.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Okay. Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's what I recall hearing today. Me GUY PAQUETTE: Two (2) things, Maître Nahmiash... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Yeah.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: 705Q-Firstly, as an undertaking, Mr. Tossan, I will ask you to verify your records, and if you can provide us with an explanation of what does the term "orange peel" refer to...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: I'm going to object to that. Me GUY PAQUETTE: We'll let Mrs. Justice Poulin decide.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-51: “Objection is maintained. The witness did not know the answer to this question which in any event was technical in nature.” |
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88. |
U-52
B. Tossan 14-08-2012
□ Maintenue
□ Rejetée
□ Retirée
|
Me GUY PAQUETTE: Just before I suspend my interrogatory of Mr. Tossan, I have a few undertakings, additional undertakings to ask him, but that has nothing to do with the fact that we will want to go through his answers after the objections are decided by Mrs. Justice Poulin, and that you will have furnished us with the undertakings that we requested today and we'll reconvene with Mr. Tossan to complete this interrogatory. But the additional undertakings that I want to ask him are the following:
706Q-Mr. Tossan, I will ask you to provide us with a copy of all documents that have been exchanged within GM Canada with regard to the subject problem for the subject vehicles for the subject period, as those are described in undertaking 18, 74, 75, 76, 78, 80 and 81 of the list of undertakings that has been provided to us by Maître Nahmiash on June nineteen (19), two thousand and twelve (2012). And to help your exercise, we will provide you with a written English version of these undertakings within the next seven (7) days so that you have something...
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So you're asking him to provide undertakings that we've already answered?
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, you didn't answer, you objected to each an every one of these... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Because... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... undertakings... Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: So then... Me GUY PAQUETTE: ... that I asked Mr. Sevigny, and I'm asking exactly the same undertaking to Mr. Tossan.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: Okay, we'll I obviously object for the same reasons that were explained before, because I haven't read all the references you just made to the undertakings, so I don't know which ones you're referring to a this time. But certainly I reiterate any objections I made with regard to those undertakings. And if there are other objections to invoke, I reserve my right to do so as well.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-52: “Objection maintained. The request is abusive. It is excessively wide and vague when considering the define terms used. Moreover, the request is repetitive and redundant. ” |
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89. |
U-53
B. Tossan 14-08-2012 □ Maintenue □ Rejetée □ Retirée
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GRILLE TARIFAIRE/PRIX/VALEUR
707Q-I have one (1) last undertaking to ask you today, Mr. Tossan. It's to provide us with any documents that are in GM Canada's records regarding the market value of the subject vehicle for the pertinent years.
Me LAURENT NAHMIASH: That's already bene asked from Mr. Sevigny and objected to, I believe.
Me GUY PAQUETTE: No, I'm asking you that as a further undertaking.
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Réponse donnée concernant la demande d’engagement U-53: “Under reserve of its objection as to relevance and the redundancy of the question, GMCL, as a manufacturer, does not retail vehicles. Vehicles are sold through GMCL authorized dealers who are independent merchants. Accordingly, GMCL does not track the market value of its vehicles. ” |
[1] 500-09-017619-073, juges Chamberland et Rochon, dissidence du juge Morin, autorisation d'en appeler à la Cour Suprême du Canada rejetée avec dépens, 11 juin 2009.
[2]
Westinghouse Canada inc. c. Arkwright Boston Manufacturers Mutual
et C-I-L inc. 3 novembre 1993,
[3]
[4]
Eagle Globe Management Ltd v. Bombardier inc.,
[5]
Volailles du fermier inc. c. Fédération des producteurs de
volailles du Québec,
[6]
Conseil québécois sur le tabac et la santé c. JTI-MacDonald
Corp.,
[7] Recall.
AVIS :
Le lecteur doit s'assurer que les décisions consultées sont finales et sans
appel; la consultation
du plumitif s'avère une précaution utile.